Let's say yo have around 100-120bb if you get it in(Kings vs AA) is it always a cooler or is there a way to get away from it?
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There are some very, very, VERY rare cases of folding against a CERTIFIED turbo-nit..... and I mean 5k hands sample with pfr/vpip 8/2 stats... especially on micros where those kind of players exist... other than that.... it's just a cooler
99% of the time it's a cooler. And for the rest it's so rare that it will not make any real difference, don't bother thinking about it.
In a sattelite format I can think of folding KK and even AA around the bubble when all players gets the same paid out with cashing, but without specific reads, stats or extreme ICM situations I can't fold KK pre-flop for 100bb effective.
Cheers,
SDK1987
Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
99% of the time it's a cooler. And for the rest it's so rare that it will not make any real difference, don't bother thinking about it.
Oh but that 18% of the time when you do suck out feels so good...
Equity Win Tie
MP2 81.94% 81.71% 0.23% { AA }
MP3 18.06% 17.83% 0.23% { KK }
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
99% of the time it's a cooler. And for the rest it's so rare that it will not make any real difference, don't bother thinking about it.Oh but that 18% of the time when you do suck out feels so good...
Hahahaha. Sometimes, my impression is that I will always lose no matter if I have AA or KK. If I have AA, villain is going to hit a set, a str8 or a flush.
Yup, if you're up against AA, there are lots of better hands than KK
Equity Win Tie
MP2 77.54% 77.37% 0.17% { AA }
MP3 22.46% 22.29% 0.17% { 87s }
Indeed, but you always make a decision based on the range you gave somoene and not 1 particler hand.
Originally posted by recover4me
Let's say yo have around 100-120bb if you get it in(Kings vs AA) is it always a cooler or is there a way to get away from it?
Good question. Most of the time you can't get away from KK below 130 BB's, UNLESS your opponent is a huge nit. For example if you have 500+ hands with them, and their stats are 10/7/3 or something. They're never jamming AK or QQ, and it's a spot that you can probably fold KK exploitatively to a 5b jam.
At these stack depths, I've removed 5-betting from my range completely, since the SPR is so low that you can get away with just calling and letting the aggressor hang himself. 5-betting only folds out his bluffs, and sometimes you'll get hero called by QQ/AKs, and be losing when he calls with AA. Same goes for AA - I don't like 5-bet jamming AA because we allow V to discard his bluffs. Calling (even OOP) allows him to continue bluffing.
5-betting can only be balanced if we introduce 5b bluffs into our range, and most players at micros aren't 4b bluffing enough for us to profitably 5b jam as a bluff.
it depends on what your assumptions are about their 4bet range, which also should depend on the player positions.
do they 4bet KK+ | QQ+,AK | QQ+,AK,A2s-A5s | random trash?...
if they "value" wider than KK, it makes sense to be jamming KK every time.
when players 4bet AK/QQ i don't think they are folding - if they are, you have a very strong incentive to be 5bet-jamming AK yourself (as well as a wide bluff range, since they are folding a ton to your 5bets and you always realize your equity when called).
i don't like a no-5bet strategy, specially with our monsters. either you assume that they aren't bluffing enough (and thus your monsters should get value), or you assume that they are and work in some 5bet bluffs.
It seems to me that there isn't room for a 5-Bet with 100 BB stacks.
If you're calling the 4-Bet, it would need to be a remarkably bad flop to fold it, so I think that the choice is fold or jam.
With 200BB stacks or greater, there is lots of room, so a 5-Bet starts to make sense
Since I'm not a hold'em player really, I'm probably full o' crap here, so please correct me if I'm wrong
theres not a high chance of you having KK and oponent AA , its pretty rare ( correct me if im wrong).
So if im preflop i never fold KK if someone 3bet/4bets me. If im UTG and opponent 3bets me in the SB. I sometimes call if i know his a hard nit.
I had lost so many times with AA, o ne day I had lost maybe 5 or 6 times with AA. I thought I really unlucky that fish gets flush with one card or etc.