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Pursuit of Improvement - Cash Game NL10

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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

Last days in grind were interesting. I fixed a big leak from BB. I study several videos from Asimos and the result is glory.

I Still have a lot in my game, but im happy.

Hand of the day!

Yatahay Network - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 115.4 BB
SB: 146.7 BB
Hero (BB): 100 BB
UTG: 118.5 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 125 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♣ T♥

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.2 BB, SB calls 1.7 BB, Hero raises to 14.3 BB, fold, SB calls 12.1 BB

Flop: (30.8 BB, 2 players) 8♣ K♠ 3♣
SB checks, Hero bets 9.2 BB, SB calls 9.2 BB

Turn: (49.2 BB, 2 players) Q♥
SB checks, Hero bets 36.9 BB, SB calls 36.9 BB

River: (123 BB, 2 players) A♦
SB bets 61.5 BB, Hero calls 39.6 BB and is all-in

SB shows 5♦ J♦ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 40%, Flop 20%, Turn 7%)
Hero shows A♣ T♥ (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 60%, Flop 80%, Turn 93%)
Hero wins 192.1 BB


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Baracchinghi
Joined: 10.01.2011

I don't understand your sizing in the last hand.
Why do you bet so big on the turn, leaving only 33% psb on the river?
I can see 3 options:
1) 1/3 flop, 30-40% turn, shove river
2) 25% flop, 50-60% pot turn, shove river
3) 40-50% flop, shove turn

But maybe your plan has some reasons i can't see ;)


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adelaar
Joined: 25.10.2013

Good luck in the new year. What are your habits about studying and playing?
I like the first posts in your blog about habits and discipline. You described it very well.


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

Originally posted by Baracchinghi
I don't understand your sizing in the last hand.
Why do you bet so big on the turn, leaving only 33% psb on the river?
I can see 3 options:
1) 1/3 flop, 30-40% turn, shove river
2) 25% flop, 50-60% pot turn, shove river
3) 40-50% flop, shove turn

But maybe your plan has some reasons i can't see ;)

Simplification Lines, my strategy. The pool don´t fit properly versus this sizes in 3 bet pot. In the turn equal, but against 75% of the pot. There is a large overfold and u make a lot of money. I do it for value or bluff.


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

Originally posted by adelaar
Good luck in the new year. What are your habits about studying and playing?
I like the first posts in your blog about habits and discipline. You described it very well.

TY man... i study in the morning, around 2 hours. Right now i´m studying the spot: Playing Out Of Position As Cold-Caller . I see the video and i look my database and find leaks.

After lunch, I go to the tables and do 60-90 minute sessions, 3-5 sessions depending on my available time. Breaks 10-30 minutes. That's what helped me the most to evolve, play more and put into practice what I've been absorbing from my studies.

Good Luck in the new year for you too.


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

Today i could not save my down. I found several coolers and i play B Game at various time.

Hand of day.

PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 102.6 BB
Hero (SB): 112.1 BB
BB: 228.8 BB
UTG: 188 BB
MP: 659.4 BB
CO: 106.5 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♥ 5♥

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 10 BB, Hero raises to 25 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 15 BB

Flop: (54 BB, 2 players) 4♣ 8♣ K♥
Hero bets 17.2 BB, BTN calls 17.2 BB

Turn: (88.4 BB, 2 players) 6♣
Hero bets 69.9 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 60.4 BB and is all-in

River: (209.2 BB, 2 players) 3♦

Hero shows A♥ 5♥ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 33%, Flop 18%, Turn 11%)
BTN shows J♥ J♣ (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 67%, Flop 82%, Turn 89%)
BTN wins 199.8 BB

The villain tank all yours time bank for the call. I go all in turn why the third card of club is a good card for bluff. If he fold pockets without clubs the play it would already be excellent. The villain is a weak reg, i think it needs to be okay 25% of the time, as there is a lot of overfold here, I think it will be much bigger than that. :f_drink:


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adelaar
Joined: 25.10.2013

Very nice working schedule!


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

The lie people have been telling about the red line

Some time ago, while I was researching on the said topic, I read multiple times something like this: "Don't worry about your red line, as long as green line is up, you are fine". Thats the single biggest lie I've ever seen someone tell to another poker player. And for a good amount of time I believed in it. I was crushing 2NL and 5NL with a poor rediline, but never tried to improve it, because my green line was fine, since the blue line was pretty good.

Thats a pretty big lie because the red line shows which type of player you are. The biggest winners at any given stake are the aggressive ones. And I'm not sure about you guys, but I've never seen an aggressive player with a red line that drops faster than the speed of light.

The red line is what separates the good regs from the top regs. The red line is what separates the poker players that play at the level 2 (the ones who think of what you can have) from those who play at the level 3 (the ones who think what you think they can have). The red line is what separates the players who can hand read well from those who can make your hand reading skills not so great. But I'm not talking about a red line resulting from crazy monkey poker, where you just click the raise and bet button without thinking about your play. I'm not talking about maniac aggression, I'm talking about smart aggression. The one that manages to improve your red line without sacrificing your blue line. I'm not saying that if you win mostly from your red line you are a bad player. I'm just saying that I believe most of the value from poker comes from getting value out of the weaker players, and that is accomplished by the blue line.

And I've experienced that in practice. At NL2 and NL5 I had no problem with my redline because my blue line was straight up so there was nothing to worry about. At least it is what people say. But at NL10 I noticed a big difference on how the game plays. Look at those two graphs, from two different sessions from this month for example:

This graph looks nice because not only the showdown winnings are good, but mostly because the non showdown winnings are not so bad. Observe that showdown winnings account for 8 buy-ins and no showdown winnings sum up to -4 buy-ins, resulting in a profit of 4 buy-ins and a winrate of 9 bb/100 in the session, which is nice. Look at the next graph now...

This one has even bigger showdown winnings (10 buy-ins) but the red line drops faster than the previous one, resulting in a boring break even session. Thats not a coincidence. One's winrate should increase a lot with improvement on the red line.

So when I realized I was leaving money at the tables with my red line, I started studying what could cause it and how I could improve it. There are a lot of things you can do to improve your red line, and I will go through some of them briefly, but the most important indicator, in my humble opinion, of one's aggressiveness is the stat WWSF (won when saw the flop). It tells you the percentage of the pots you won, considering only those in which you saw the flop. It basically tells you how often you win a hand postflop. Not coincidentally, the good graph has a WWSF of 49%, while the bad one has a WWSF of 45%.

When a player has a high WWSF stat, together with a high W$SD stat, I have no doubt this player is a pretty big winner. If someone can take several pots postflop and still have the goods in showdown, it means that this player is aware of his opponents ranges and his own range, allowing him to: put pressure in the certain spots where villain will have a hard time realizing his equity; steal the pot when villain is weak and capped; attack board textures that favours his range, winning the pot more often; and still knows when to give up so that he doesn't end up getting caught.

For these reasons my main concern right now is to improve my red line in order to maximize my winrate. I've already set some targets in terms of strategy and I have some places to start, which I think are good ways to improve overall aggression, mainly postflop but also preflop:

3-bet a lot preflop. Most regs have a 3-bet percentage from 5% to 8%. My target is to get it up to 9%. This should help increase non showdown winnings a lot.

Steal wide from late position. Most people at NL10 have a fold SB and BB to steal stat higher than 65%. Thats huge and should be exploited. Right now I'm opening 60% OTB and 56% on the SB. Button looks good but SB should definitely increase up to 60% as well.

Increase c-betting frequency, specially in position. People underdefend in a variety of board textures and that should also be exploited. My current c-bet % is 55%. Target is to get it up to 60%, at least when IP.

Attack high c-bettors. This is a thing I have to work on. Most people c-bet like 70%+ and thats too exploitable. Versus those players we should check/raise a lot of flops when OOP and float them a lot, specially in position.

Attack checking ranges. People at NL10 have extremely unbalanced checking ranges. This should be exploited. That can be accomplished by many moves, like: delay c-bet the turn a lot when villain double checks vs hero; bet twice OOP with an uncapped range on good board textures for hero's range when villain skips flop c-bet; bet a lot vs missed c-bets BB vs SB and BN vs CO. Its important to be careful with this because we become highly exploited ourselves but I don't expect villains to realize this and fight back. Pay attention to those players who have low c-bet %. Their checking ranges are usually stronger, so they are harder to exploit and should be avoided.

Adjust versus players who don't fold to c-bets. Our red line can suffer vs this type of player because we often fire one or two barrels and give up, and villain simply doesn't fold. Versus this type of player, check/raising more flops and triple barreling more runouts are better strategies than betting once or twice.

Bluffcatch with reads and good blockers. I used to underestimate the capability of the NL10 field to bluff, but I can see now that they are bluffing in many spots where we should bluffcatch. Also, their 3-betting ranges aren't as tight as one might think, so we shouldn't be giving up too easily postflop, specially in position.

Thats what I'm gonna be working on in the near future. Hopefully I will be able to come back here with good news about my red line results. How is your redline? What do you do (or don't do) to keep it good, without dropping faster than the speed of light? Good luck out there, and lets get this red line at least a little bit up.


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Baracchinghi
Joined: 10.01.2011

You can see in my blog that i win mostly with redline.
There isn't anything crazy about that, it's just a mix of spotting overfolded lines, using all the stats pt4 can provide, thinking about sizing in a multistreet "way" and of course studying pseudo-optimal solution in order to understand how and when to deviate.
Usually wts/wsd and of course wwsf alone can give me an idea of the inclination of the red line.
Something like wtsd=31, wsd=54, wwsf 51 is what you need as a target ;)

Last 100k hands, for example:


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MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

Well, yes and no, obviously it depends on a lot of things, where you're playing etc, but if you've been under the impression that most people told you NOT to focus on your red line, it's because the previous trend was the opposite, and it was no good either :

https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=216296


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

Originally posted by Baracchinghi
You can see in my blog that i win mostly with redline.
There isn't anything crazy about that, it's just a mix of spotting overfolded lines, using all the stats pt4 can provide, thinking about sizing in a multistreet "way" and of course studying pseudo-optimal solution in order to understand how and when to deviate.
Usually wts/wsd and of course wwsf alone can give me an idea of the inclination of the red line.
Something like wtsd=31, wsd=54, wwsf 51 is what you need as a target ;)

Last 100k hands, for example:

Nice graph man... huge red line and huge win. That would be what limit? I think the ideal stats is: WTSD=30 /WSD=51/WWSF=5. I´m impressed with yours SB. WTF is positive!!!! :profit:
Glad to know I'm on the way here .. Now is working to improve my results

PS: i go read you blog!!


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY
Well, yes and no, obviously it depends on a lot of things, where you're playing etc, but if you've been under the impression that most people told you NOT to focus on your red line, it's because the previous trend was the opposite, and it was no good either :

https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=216296/blockquote >
Nice, i will read later. W34z3l is my favorite author here. TY


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

What I think that supports the fall in my case is:
- Steal as wide as I can depending on the blinds.
- Lower the cbet frequency OOP (I have troubles in SB vs BB - large SPR and very wide ranges).
- Bluff more IP OTF, especially by raising against light cbettors.
- Light betting OTT/OTR vs double check lines as they are usually capped.

I think that the red line is mostly related to the general tendencies of the population. At lower stakes people usually overcall, so it is natural to have better blue lines when you implement a more "fit-fold" style, that works.
I think in the end it all comes to adapt to the players you face.


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

New Day, New Win!!

Hands of the Day:
PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 133.8 BB
SB: 122.3 BB
Hero (BB): 146.5 BB
UTG: 145.9 BB
MP: 95.6 BB
CO: 169.8 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♦ A♦

fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 11.3 BB, BTN calls 8.3 BB

Flop: (23.1 BB, 2 players) 9♠ 4♦ 5♦
Hero bets 7.4 BB, BTN calls 7.4 BB

Turn: (37.9 BB, 2 players) 2♦
Hero bets 29 BB, BTN calls 29 BB

River: (95.9 BB, 2 players) 2♠
Hero bets 98.8 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 86.1 BB and is all-in

Hero shows J♦ A♦ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 48%, Flop 55%, Turn 100%)
BTN shows 8♠ 8♥ (Two Pair, Eights and Twos)
(Pre 53%, Flop 45%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 256 BB

--
PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 114.9 BB
SB: 28.5 BB
BB: 120.9 BB
Hero (UTG): 103.2 BB
MP: 100 BB
CO: 113.9 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♦ 6♦

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (6.5 BB, 2 players) 4♥ 8♦ K♦
BB checks, Hero bets 2.1 BB, BB raises to 6.5 BB, Hero calls 4.4 BB

Turn: (19.5 BB, 2 players) J♣
BB bets 14 BB, Hero calls 14 BB

River: (47.5 BB, 2 players) 4♦
BB bets 43.1 BB, Hero calls 43.1 BB

BB shows T♥ Q♥ (One Pair, Fours)
(Pre 45%, Flop 18%, Turn 23%)
Hero shows A♦ 6♦ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 55%, Flop 82%, Turn 77%)
Hero wins 127.7 BB

---

PokerStars - $0.10 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 100 BB
SB: 100 BB
Hero (BB): 109.8 BB
UTG: 101 BB
MP: 101.5 BB
CO: 106.4 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 9♥ 8♥

fold, fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 11.3 BB, CO calls 8.3 BB

Flop: (23.1 BB, 2 players) K♠ 9♣ 5♠
Hero bets 7.4 BB, CO calls 7.4 BB

Turn: (37.9 BB, 2 players) 3♠
Hero bets 27.9 BB, fold

Hero wins 36.2 BB

This last hand show the overfold of the pool vs one scary card in 3bet pot


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Baracchinghi
Joined: 10.01.2011

Sadly the third flush card is a strange one.
I studied it in nl 50/nl100 pool, and it was not overfolded at all (in this kind of spot).
The population filter of the pic is: rfi, called 3bet, ip, called cbet flop, facing cbet turn. Board: 2 suits on the flop, third suit on the turn.
Maybe you can check it in your population, because in mine it's the kind of spot you need to play deviating less than possible from optimal :D


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MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

Originally posted by zetozinho
At lower stakes people usually overcall

No they don't, as we've been repeating at each Lemon's stream, according to solid database population analysis. They call with bad hands so you see weird showdowns, sure, but they come with so many bad hands in the first place that they often have a folding frequency too high every street nevertheless. People really have a hard time understanding this point...

@Baracchinghi : yeah I'd rather see it that way too. Depending on the field of course, but below a certain level I'd expect them to be too flush heavy in these spots basically.


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Baracchinghi
Joined: 10.01.2011

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY

they come with so many bad hands in the first place that they often have a folding frequency too high every street nevertheless. People really have a hard time understanding this point...

THIS! :)


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

@baracchinghi and @MyFloXyBabY
This conclusion was made after an MDA (Massive database Analyse) of over 16kk hands. I saw a class about Nick Haward at Run It Once. Recently I started to see some Alex "Kanu7" Millar content on Upswing and I was able to fix this type of edge deviation a lot too.

In your sample shown @baracchinghi, remember to see the size you used to turn too, this can contribute to having more or fewer calls in the play


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Baracchinghi
Joined: 10.01.2011

Howard's things are obsolete (or in general not accurate enough). Just think about his idea of x/raising any rainbow board. Nobody folds as much as he says (at least at decent limits, i don't know anything about nl10 ofc).
A more advanced search would be with or without flush blocker.

P.s.: it's noy "my size", it's a population vs population sample (Hero is negated in the filter).


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Orochimaro
Joined: 09.05.2008

Originally posted by Baracchinghi
Howard's things are obsolete (or in general not accurate enough). Just think about his idea of x/raising any rainbow board. Nobody folds as much as he says (at least at decent limits, i don't know anything about nl10 ofc).
A more advanced search would be with or without flush blocker.

P.s.: it's noy "my size", it's a population vs population sample (Hero is negated in the filter).

Understand


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