Pursuit of Improvement - Cash Game NL10

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY

Originally posted by zetozinho
At lower stakes people usually overcall

No they don't, as we've been repeating at each Lemon's stream, according to solid database population analysis. They call with bad hands so you see weird showdowns, sure, but they come with so many bad hands in the first place that they often have a folding frequency too high every street nevertheless. People really have a hard time understanding this point...

@Baracchinghi : yeah I'd rather see it that way too. Depending on the field of course, but below a certain level I'd expect them to be too flush heavy in these spots basically.

Probably yes. They play so many hands they have to fold often ♦
But they definitely call too much when they should fold.
The point is: I see a lot of people saying that microstakes is super easy to beat and bla bla bla, but that's just not the case. People aren't that exploitable anymore. It is easy to play a few thousand hands at 20bb/100 and think you're great, but again sample size is another thing people seem to misunderstand.
Anything below half million hands, even a million, is just useless.

Originally posted by zetozinho

Anything below half million hands, even a million, is just useless.

Well, if after 500k hands somebody still plays microstakes, the problem is not red or blue or purple line ♦

Originally posted by Baracchinghi

Originally posted by zetozinho

Anything below half million hands, even a million, is just useless.

Well, if after 500k hands somebody still plays microstakes, the problem is not red or blue or purple line ♦

I know someone like that, she has billions of hands at NL2 with 20-25 bb/100 winrate but she has a huge tilting problem each time she tries to go out of micros
She was a french moderator for this forum so she was quite well known in our community.

@zetozinho : They don't "call too much when they should fold." They call not enough, AND with a bad range, hence including bad hands, but seeing bad calls don't mean they call too much. Dont mix up everything. It's pretty important to understand how this works and how much the "it's impossible to bluff at micros" cliche can limit your growth as a player.

The fact that micros are or aren't easy to beat is another debate not worth having. It depends. I'd just like to both point out that poker is far from dead, and that it can indeed be a little annoying to hear big pros not having played there for years sounding like they underestimate the relative evolution of the (still totally beatable) field.
A friend likes to say that it's kind of like politicians that live so far from normal people that they don't know anymore the price of bread or milk.

Yes, in the end it all comes to adapt.
But how do you play correctly against someone that for some reason has K4s in his UTG open range but not on his BTN range?

Why would you need to know his exact range composition to beat him ?

Fish can show up with hands they never should have and it can get expensive in single pots. But at same time they usually end up overplaying so many weak holdings that in bigger sample it tends to be printing money to play them.

But yeah from looking some of hands posted here seems like villains are calling down with some really absurd hands. E.g. that nut flush hand stacking off non diamond 88

Originally posted by Baracchinghi

Originally posted by zetozinho

Anything below half million hands, even a million, is just useless.

Well, if after 500k hands somebody still plays microstakes, the problem is not red or blue or purple line ♦

I think the same!

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY

Originally posted by Baracchinghi

Originally posted by zetozinho

Anything below half million hands, even a million, is just useless.

Well, if after 500k hands somebody still plays microstakes, the problem is not red or blue or purple line ♦

I know someone like that, she has billions of hands at NL2 with 20-25 bb/100 winrate but she has a huge tilting problem each time she tries to go out of micros
She was a french moderator for this forum so she was quite well known in our community.

@zetozinho : They don't "call too much when they should fold." They call not enough, AND with a bad range, hence including bad hands, but seeing bad calls don't mean they call too much. Dont mix up everything. It's pretty important to understand how this works and how much the "it's impossible to bluff at micros" cliche can limit your growth as a player.

The fact that micros are or aren't easy to beat is another debate not worth having. It depends. I'd just like to both point out that poker is far from dead, and that it can indeed be a little annoying to hear big pros not having played there for years sounding like they underestimate the relative evolution of the (still totally beatable) field.
A friend likes to say that it's kind of like politicians that live so far from normal people that they don't know anymore the price of bread or milk.

Did he retire from the tables with the huge profits he made at nl2?

Originally posted by ghaleon
Fish can show up with hands they never should have and it can get expensive in single pots. But at same time they usually end up overplaying so many weak holdings that in bigger sample it tends to be printing money to play them.

But yeah from looking some of hands posted here seems like villains are calling down with some really absurd hands. E.g. that nut flush hand stacking off non diamond 88

The important thing is that the fish keeps doing it !!

Originally posted by Orochimaro
Did he retire from the tables with the huge profits he made at nl2?

No, She is still playing NL2-5 and sometimes even NL10, but never higher. She has given up on the idea to climb up long ago.

One more thing about the "micros fishes don't fold" inept cliché : please learn to stop expecting people to fold once and for all, than you very much.
They already are nice enough to overfold and you are still not happy because in addition they even call with bad hands (so you can BOTH bluff and value rightly) which is ultimately good for you ? Come on ! How much do you need to win to be satisfied ?
This game isn't about making huge laydowns anyway, do you really think good players make them ? Do you think at high stakes player are just giving up on pots politely ? Lol nope. The tougher the opponent, the harder it is to find spots where he can't defend enough of ignores his MDF or whatever. You won't find nits at nosebleeds. Or it will be a losing nit.
Good poker isn't tight fold poker. That is eventually good exploitative poker, meaning if you expect your opponents to do that against you, you'd need to be a bad player yourself for them to do it rightly so. Are you playing that badly yourself ?

First session of 2020!!