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888 Omaha heads up, only ever one outcome in a certain situation

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I have noticed a 'phenomenom' at 888 poker, whilst playing Omaha heads up SNGs.

I have been playing online for 18yrs and i have been reasonably successful at micro stakes making £18.000, mainly at FullTilt.
I was sponsored by Badbeat.com in the past, but have struggled since Black Friday as i believe sites conjured ways to maintain custom shortly after.
For the past 3yrs i have been playing at 888 Poker. I find it overall, a little better mathematically than most sites these days, but i do have to overcome a noticeable handicap.

When you have won a big pot, where an opponent has called off the majority of their chips when obviously beat, they tend to want to go all in preflop as they have given up with so little chips left. Unfortunately on 888, if you go all in preflop in this situation there is only one result. They automatically win and not only win.... its always 3 of a kind or better.

After i noticed it for some time, i started recording it and have got to over 400 now... not one won and all lost to 3 of a kind or better, regardless of each others holding preflop. Although i go on to win alot of these games, it obviously hinders my chances of turning a good profit if i am not ever able to finish off a game due to this standard outcome. Maybe 1 in 7 games will produce this situation, as other games will simply just finish at the completion of a certain hand.

As all sites do, 888 have a prewritten email pointing to 'eCogra's state of the art testing' for randomness and pass this phenomenom 400 on the run 3 of a kind or better off as 'a bad beat'.

The only thing i can do is get the prefop all in out of the way as soon as possible, so their automatic double up is as small as possible.... and accept this is going to happen. You have to see it for it to be believed when you call all in with As Ad Qd Ks, accept the loss, know your beat already and smile as their 2d 3s 9d Js auto wins with 3 of a kind or better.

I tried it with a deck of cards, but won the first 2 with just a pair. As i say, its just not the 400 on the run, its the 3 of a kind or better that makes this just simply impossible. I believe most hands are 50/50 preflop at Omaha, but i havent won a single one. I would like to ask those who back online poker for being random, how they think this is happening?


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4 replies
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Hi TheWaddy7,
Welcome to PokerStrategy.com! :welcome:

Perhaps I should play HU PLO :coolface:

I jokingly call this "desperation equity".
On all sites I have come back to cash from being down to less than one big blind.

In live poker the phenomenon is known as "a chip and a chair"

So what's happening?:
:diamond:  Super-shortied goes AI with any two (or 4)
:diamond:  Big stack -- or anyone whose stack is more than 10x shortie's stack calls with any 2 (or 4)

In Omaha any one hand is rarely ahead of another
So the two hands each have 50% equity vs the other.

A streak of 400 consecutive is extremely unlikely though

Originally posted by TheWaddy7
The only thing i can do is get the prefop all in out of the way as soon as possible, so their automatic double up is as small as possible.... and accept this is going to happen. You have to see it for it to be believed when you call all in with As Ad Qd Ks, accept the loss, know your beat already and smile as their 2d 3s 9d Js auto wins with 3 of a kind or better.

Sorry, but I don't understand the bold portion -- their double up can only be the size of their stack.
If they don't double up on their first hand after getting their stack drastically reduced, that breaks you string of consecutive losses.

If you suspect something is wrong, then by all means please send the evidence to the appropriate agencies.

All the best,
VS


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The first all in preflop when they have called off to be down a short stack, they are automatically winning. So i have got to a stage where this needs to be as soon as possible, in order to restrict their double up to as small as possible.
There is inevitably going to be an all in preflop, as i cant just keep folding to double them up, purely by giving them blinds.

I now accept they will double up so it got to a stage after about the 350 losses on the run mark, where i will actively encourage an all in preflop the very first hand after the big giveaway pot.... to keep the double up as small as possible (i have 1850 chips to 150, he will get 300, if i fold his constant raises to allow him to 250 and then go all in preflop with AsAd10sKd, he will automatically get 500). So i have to get it out the way as there will be no other outcome, regardless of our holdings.

I think you are missing the point that not only have i lost over 400 on the run, it has ALWAYS been to 3 of a kind or better, which makes it highly unlikely to absolutely impossible. I am wholly aware that preflop any given hand is around 50/50... thats why maths is telling me this is written into the deck.

Im not sure what you mean by appropriate agencies, as im sure you know, regulation is extremely poor. The Gambling Commission have admitted to me that they dont look at anything, have no resources or have any knowledge at all that relates to poker and issue 'certificates' purely on the findings of companies like eCogra... who take hundreds of thousands of pounds from sites to conduct their 'testing'. It is of course, a massive conflict of financial interest and it is not in their best interests to find anything wrong whatsoever.... 'dont bite the hand that feeds you' comes to mind.

I have to accept that all sites are enjoying the painfully woeful regulation and it always makes me laugh at people and sites that say 'they dont do this, because if anyone found out, they would be finished'.... as it stands right now, nobody of any note is looking... no-ones looking. Ecogra turn a blind eye, they get paid, they determine who gets the certificate, no-one else is involved, no-one at The Gambling Commission thinks of poker of anything different to slot machines. What can go wrong?

And before you say there is nothing in it for them to have a deck that isnt random, consider maintaining site traffic (poor players dont get busted bank rolls) and the rake at cash games is maximised (long odds rivers, produce big pots). Sites even have pre-written emails with the blatant lie 'there would be no advantage to us not to have a random deck, as we only make money from fees and rake'. So you only make money from lots of players playing and from the size of the pot? Well isnt tht just totally contradicting what you you just said in your pre-written email!?

You know, the email you have to have prepared to cope with the thousands of emails you will get from players all having the same experience?


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norbert027
Joined: 29.01.2012

Nem tudom sajnos


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Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Hi norbert027,
English in the EN community please.
If necessary just use Google Translate when posting here

Thanks
VS


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