NL50 Zoom 6Max, that's almost the card you wanted to hit but not quite

Call the river, your hand is hidden. I wouldn't shove here. He raised you on the turn likely without the Ace.

Btw turn is check/call. Your call to his raise is wrong. You are lucky in this hand but long term loosing. The math just doesn't make this +EV and your implied odds are slim. Players on this level do not just call huge rivers anymore when flush completes etc. I think.

First of all I am not playing near NL50, but the 3BB open is a bit big BvB, isn't it? I only use 3BB against fishy players, but according to the stats, that's not the most likely case here. What's the point in a 3BB open here?

Originally posted by LahtiPelican
First of all I am not playing near NL50, but the 3BB open is a bit big BvB, isn't it? I only use 3BB against fishy players, but according to the stats, that's not the most likely case here. What's the point in a 3BB open here?

In the old days of online poker, it was almost a rule to open to 3BB on all position except the BTN which is 2BB.

In modern time, people now use 2.5BB or 2.75BB on all position except the SB which is 3BB or 3.5BB.

So, to answer your question you must open to at least 3BB on SB vs BB. There is a complex reason behind this theory which you can read about else where.

Originally posted by Dragar
Call the river, your hand is hidden. I wouldn't shove here. He raised you on the turn likely without the Ace.

Btw turn is check/call. Your call to his raise is wrong. You are lucky in this hand but long term loosing. The math just doesn't make this +EV and your implied odds are slim. Players on this level do not just call huge rivers anymore when flush completes etc. I think.

Why would you think that?

I agree with check-call on turn. Thanks.

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by Dragar
Call the river, your hand is hidden. I wouldn't shove here. He raised you on the turn likely without the Ace.

Btw turn is check/call. Your call to his raise is wrong. You are lucky in this hand but long term loosing. The math just doesn't make this +EV and your implied odds are slim. Players on this level do not just call huge rivers anymore when flush completes etc. I think.

Why would you think that?

I agree with check-call on turn. Thanks.

Just a thought as he is not raising your 1/3 flop bet if you could be drawing. So am thinking why now raise the turn with just an Ace as he could have done this on the flop, usually I would expect him to just call. Exception of course is A7 or A8.
Also BB calling range has less Aces as they 3-bet, while SB range has all Aces including premium ones.

Not that complex. You just don't want to give the BB too good pot odds to defend ip.

Originally posted by Dragar

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by Dragar
Call the river, your hand is hidden. I wouldn't shove here. He raised you on the turn likely without the Ace.

Btw turn is check/call. Your call to his raise is wrong. You are lucky in this hand but long term loosing. The math just doesn't make this +EV and your implied odds are slim. Players on this level do not just call huge rivers anymore when flush completes etc. I think.

Why would you think that?

I agree with check-call on turn. Thanks.

Just a thought as he is not raising your 1/3 flop bet if you could be drawing. So am thinking why now raise the turn with just an Ace as he could have done this on the flop, usually I would expect him to just call. Exception of course is A7 or A8.
Also BB calling range has less Aces as they 3-bet, while SB range has all Aces including premium ones.

That's very good man. You are right in that he doesn't have an Ace but if I could see that then I should shove on river because we most likely beat all of his two pair combos.

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by Dragar

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by Dragar
Call the river, your hand is hidden. I wouldn't shove here. He raised you on the turn likely without the Ace.

Btw turn is check/call. Your call to his raise is wrong. You are lucky in this hand but long term loosing. The math just doesn't make this +EV and your implied odds are slim. Players on this level do not just call huge rivers anymore when flush completes etc. I think.

Why would you think that?

I agree with check-call on turn. Thanks.

Just a thought as he is not raising your 1/3 flop bet if you could be drawing. So am thinking why now raise the turn with just an Ace as he could have done this on the flop, usually I would expect him to just call. Exception of course is A7 or A8.
Also BB calling range has less Aces as they 3-bet, while SB range has all Aces including premium ones.

That's very good man. You are right in that he doesn't have an Ace but if I could see that then I should shove on river because we most likely beat all of his two pair combos.

It's not 100% certain that he does not have an ace as he has some combos left. Also K7 and K8.

I am not shoving because he already made a huge bet and I'll take that money. If I shove I have the risk of being wrong and him calling me with a better two pair or a set.
Also to a shove a good player lays down something like 78 here + all his hands that did not make it as well as single pairs I think.
We need him to call with a worse hand which is not likely to happen so I think we are at max value in the hand already.
This is just my personal play style. I hardly ever c/r rivers for value without absolute nuts or a bluff as I don't see the point.

Originally posted by Dragar
It's not 100% certain that he does not have an ace as he has some combos left. Also K7 and K8.

I am not shoving because he already made a huge bet and I'll take that money. If I shove I have the risk of being wrong and him calling me with a better two pair or a set.
Also to a shove a good player lays down something like 78 here + all his hands that did not make it as well as single pairs I think.
We need him to call with a worse hand which is not likely to happen so I think we are at max value in the hand already.
This is just my personal play style. I hardly ever c/r rivers for value without absolute nuts or a bluff as I don't see the point.

Yeah, he had 87, what do you think about his overbet on river?

I'd cc the turn here you WANT him to bet his air
Now I feel like I have to call

I like his play

oooooo soul read!! ♦ (just wish I could do this more on the tables as well, it's somewhat tougher as you are in the action)

Don't think it's great. I think he thinks you are a fish due to your bet sizing and will call him. He is overplaying his hand by betting this high because your of low turn bet. Your call should have alerted him though.
If I am him I would bet something like 1/2-2/3 of pot on river, then fold to a shove potentially but to be fair its a tough fold. Since we are this deep it's an easier one though.
I think if we would be playing for 100bb here you could potentially shove and he may call, but again you always got that risk of being called by better.

Thanks you all. I didn't realize betting turn was worse than check-calling. I was schooled here boys.

Well,
I'd say Dr1fter808 is a great candidate for Sunday
Please consider applying
And I I will show you why I think his play is good
Or be proven wrong by solvers
And how mad BvB ranges can really be

Simply reply in the below thread if you're in and then shoot me a friend Req/PM with your skype/discord!
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=507735

Originally posted by LemOn36
And I I will show you why I think his play is good
Or be proven wrong by solvers
And how mad BvB ranges can really be

Simply reply in the below thread if you're in and then shoot me a friend Req/PM with your skype/discord!
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=507735/blockquote >

Oh no, I believe you. I subscribe to DrUPSWING on Twitch and he would overbet the 87 on BB vs SB like 100% of the time and he is much better player than I am but also bluffs way more than I do.