Villain overbets all in river. Do you call with TP?

In answer to the question "Do you call with TP?"
On a paired board with possible better Jacks, overpairs, trips, straights, flushes, full houses and quads staring me in the face I am most definitely not going to call this river.

I might even fold the turn.
A lot depends on SB's previous behaviour

All the best,
VS

I would most like Cbet/fold the flop for thin value and protection.
I expect if 1 of the villians will raise it's only with better hands and in best case a flush draw.

Cheers,
SDK1987

I'm a 5NL fish myself. And it is an easy fold to me. I think one of the habit I learned it that I give up small pots when suspecting a pure bluff, but consider calling when the pot is big.

SB checked flop, but donk turn in 4-way. It could be something (a pair or good draw) or bluff to steal the pot. However, when SB pushes the river, you do not have enough equity to call. I would rather raise 2.5x on the turn if I suspect a bluff.

Why would you raise a bluff? The best play against a suspected bluff is calling, raising will only make you fold his bluff and continue/raise with his value range, or am I seeing this wrong?

(I folded, obvs, but I was tempted)

Flop is a bet of around 80% of pot
Turn is a call as played
River is a role as played

Originally posted by Dragar
Flop is a bet of around 80% of pot
Turn is a call as played
River is a role as played

Sure, would you care to explain?

Flop: We are pre-flop aggressor and have hit top pair on a wet board vs multiple opponents. We have to bet to protect our hand and for value. 80% or higher as it's multiway and you don't want to give odds to draw.

Turn: Since we checked the flop we are now under represented and have to call as villains range is unknown and often we hold the best hand.

River: Draws complete, board is paired, and villain pushes. A pair is not good here and hence we fold. Btw if we hold AA here we also fold.

Originally posted by Dragar
Flop: We are pre-flop aggressor and have hit top pair on a wet board vs multiple opponents. We have to bet to protect our hand and for value. 80% or higher as it's multiway and you don't want to give odds to draw.

Turn: Since we checked the flop we are now under represented and have to call as villains range is unknown and often we hold the best hand.

River: Draws complete, board is paired, and villain pushes. A pair is not good here and hence we fold. Btw if we hold AA here we also fold.

Thanks a lot for the breakdown

GL at the tables!

i will just fold pre

if i raise pre i will cbet 50% in this flop

as played, easy fold on the river this is clearly over bet value from villain

KQ, 87, flush 9x.. Why do you want bluff catcher 3x pot?

Originally posted by pisiattu
KQ, 87, flush 9x.. Why do you want bluff catcher 3x pot?

Because I've caught villains doing that before, last one I caught (2 days ago, NLZ5) shoved 10x pot river IP (SRP, MP vs BB, action: bet call, check check, bet raise 10x pot, I call) with 44 in hand, no set. If I'm going to get a BI more often than not thinking about these spots, then I'd like to think about these spots. The hand in this thread is a clear fold, but sometimes it's a call, even without the immortal nuts, I would think.

If you fld don't make a mistakes, if you call and lost this hand you make a big mistake

Originally posted by pisiattu
If you fld don't make a mistakes, if you call and lost this hand you make a big mistake

I understand what you're saying, but the way you worded it sounds terribly results oriented. "If you call -and lost- you make a big mistake." The outcome of the hand doesn't matter. What matters is the decision making process, your rationale behind your decisions, and certainly not if you lost or won.

Also, "if you fold you don't make a mistake" seems inaccurate to me. There's a bigger picture here: again, folding or calling doesn't matter, what matters is your thinking process. The real mistake is "why" you called or folded, not the action in itself. And besides, if you do call AND your thinking process was eroned, then you can at least see villain's hand and use this information to study to a higher quality.

Nothing personal, I jus't don't agree with the idea.

You put only 11bb in the pot, if you fold and he overbluff is a little mistake, but if you call for your stack vs an overbet 3x pot if you mistake read it is an hell.

If he is a speawer wait a big hand for go all in or a clear bluff catcher l, not here.
You have only a Q:c in a board with trips, flush and full...
I fold also Q:c 9x...