AKo IP facing turnRaise

So, this is kind of an interesting spot. I think we can make some assumptions here. If he has the two draws (54s & 98s) and the 2 pair combos (76s), I think he is capable of having all 9 set combos here. He has 11 crushing combos of value vs 8 equity driven holdings (on the flop of course).

When we hit this turn, we now block his BDFD continues from the flop (Axhh), we have coolered stuff like KQ and maybe KJs and we still have the 11 crushing combos and the 8 equity driven 8 out draws. So, the question is this, does he raise 98s/54s and his turned Kx? Not so sure this is a high frequency play in this pool. I am really not sure about how we should be sizing our bets here. I think small is kind of ok since we are naturally getting more folds since we block AhXh continues. That said, if we can get value from the 8 SD combos and the Kx portions of his range should we bet bigger looking to bet/fold vs a raise? Since he has 8 combos of 8 out draws on the turn, I am not keen on giving him 4:1 on a call on the turn. I would size up turn some in this line. I think maybe 8-12 or 9-13 bb's might be better. He is not folding KJs+ vs that size and it

So the above assumes his is quite wide in his call. MP range should be pretty tight and condensed here. Mixed calls with like 33-TT/JJ, some combos of SC's, probably some AK, KQ, KJ, KT.

If we bet/call turn and get this river, we have to x/f if he rips into us. 98s and KT get there along with the sets and 2p+. T is like the worst card in the deck when facing this line.

Your weak bet on the turn would often induce raises from all sort of hands as people would not give you credit for having a strong made hand with such a weak bet of roughly 25 %. Probably the best line is to get All-in on the turn and not have to guess on the river where he bets his ENTIRE range. He calls draws (or folds ton of equity) and would often call worse top pairs and sometimes even worse.

ty guys.

My betsize on the turn is small since I didnt want to play a huge pot against him. I get that 2/3 sizing turn is in generally better, but it makes me vulnerable to a good size ReRaise from Villian, where I am not able to fold and then be "commited" on the River.

Turn bet = 13 BB ... Villians Raise 36 BB (which puts me exactly in the same spot that I don't want to be)

This is a adjustment on my end to not stack of with TPTP... and I feel generally fine with it. Like in this hand vs. Aggro Fish I get more bluffs in.

So I really think it is not the bet sizing on the turn that's the trouble, but the decision bet/fold ... or bet/shove. Or is Bet/call better to keep bluffs in?

If you do not want to stack with TPTK, what is the point to 3bet him preflop ? You are at the top of your range and he has all sort of weaker hands to pay you off. It is not JT9ssKx or 876sssKx board to be so scared to play your hand aggressively.

Originally posted by Fanko
If you do not want to stack with TPTK, what is the point to 3bet him preflop ? You are at the top of your range and he has all sort of weaker hands to pay you off. It is not JT9ssKx or 876sssKx board to be so scared to play your hand aggressively.

A 3bet preflop doesn't mean you have to stack off post flop.
Easy rule of thumb on NL5 (and I assume nl2 isn't very different) is that one pair is almost never good enough against a post flop reraise (this includes overpairs). If you have reads a player can do this with draws (it's a minority), fine. If not, assume they have you beat.
In this case, even the semi bluff straight completes on the river.. so I'd fold the river and I think folding on the turn will be even bette for your winrate

98s hits, 54s misses. All flush draws miss. He still has bluffs and weaker made hands. You need like 25% equity to call reasonably profitably. That hand simply cannot be a fold in this spot. If you fold this, you are bleeding value.

Originally posted by Fanko
98s hits, 54s misses. All flush draws miss. He still has bluffs and weaker made hands. You need like 25% equity to call reasonably profitably. That hand simply cannot be a fold in this spot. If you fold this, you are bleeding value.

It can be a fold on the micro's. If you hold on to math, ranges, bluffing frequencies, GTO etc on the micros. That's when you are bleeding value.

Originally posted by marcvz

Originally posted by Fanko
If you do not want to stack with TPTK, what is the point to 3bet him preflop ? You are at the top of your range and he has all sort of weaker hands to pay you off. It is not JT9ssKx or 876sssKx board to be so scared to play your hand aggressively.

A 3bet preflop doesn't mean you have to stack off post flop.
Easy rule of thumb on NL5 (and I assume nl2 isn't very different) is that one pair is almost never good enough against a post flop reraise (this includes overpairs). If you have reads a player can do this with draws (it's a minority), fine. If not, assume they have you beat.
In this case, even the semi bluff straight completes on the river.. so I'd fold the river and I think folding on the turn will be even bette for your winrate

Yeah... It doesn't feel right the other way around on this Limit. But I get Fanko's piont, on limits NL10+ Villian will exploit these situations and reRaise more ift to get us to fold TPTK. So u are both correct I guess.
^^ this relevation actually took me 15k hands on NL2 and NL5 ... and I lost more money then I won. Hopefully this will change with NL10, since I really do think stacking off should be fine.

Maybe some NL25 and NL50 players will enlighten us?!