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KK vs overshove river

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Anraxas
Joined: 21.03.2010

Think preflop en flop are standard.
I checked the turn because I wanted him to bluff the river with Ax or flushdraw hands.
Should I have fodled considering his raise size?

PokerStars - 70/140 Ante 21 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 7 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (CO): 86.38 BB
BTN: 43.04 BB
SB: 68.16 BB
BB: 36.69 BB
UTG: 64.2 BB
UTG+1: 84.81 BB
MP: 23.49 BB

7 players post ante of 0.15 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.55 BB) Hero has K♦ K♠

UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 5.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 3.5 BB

Flop: (13.55 BB, 2 players) 8♣ T♣ T♠
UTG checks, Hero bets 9.04 BB, UTG calls 9.04 BB

Turn: (31.62 BB, 2 players) J♠
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: (31.62 BB, 2 players) 7♥
UTG bets 49 BB, Hero calls 49 BB

Spoiler

UTG shows 8♦ 8♠ (Full House, Eights full of Tens)
(Pre 18%, Flop 83%, Turn 91%)
Hero mucks K♦ K♠ (Two Pair, Kings and Tens)
(Pre 82%, Flop 17%, Turn 9%)
UTG wins 129.62 BB


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4 replies
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maniac
Joined: 29.03.2006

I would bet turn for value and protection an x back Rover. If he ships turn you have to let go


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SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I would go for 2 streets of value with around 40% pot bet on flop and turn.

As played I would fold the river on the over bet shove. I expect villain isn't doing this as bluff and you win only against QQ or weird played AJ.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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Anraxas
Joined: 21.03.2010

I`m going to go in to this a bit more out of curiousity, because I feel like I`m missing something.
If you play it this way, I either isolate against better or give draws the right odds to call.

Lets say I raise with 40% of pot on turn, that would be a 13BB raise.
Different options for him:
- air: he`ll fold
- pockets: below 88 he`ll probably fold. so only beat 99/QQ
- 2 pair or better: will flat or reraise
- flush draws: lets say without overcards is 1/4 odds. so he`ll have to call 13bb in a 45BB pot. with his implied odds, thats a call.
- straight made or draw: either already has me beat or gets right odds to call

so if I raise and he calls I can say that he has either beat me or draws to beat me (except 99/QQ).
If he reraises I would have to fold. Same what I probably should have done on river except without the extra 40% in the pot.

If I check everything above stays the same except his weak hands stay in his range and the pot is controlled more.
So while I agree I shouldnt have gone broke on river, check turn and fold against shove seems better.
If he makes a small river bet I probably should call.
Happy to learn here, but I dont see how betting 40% turn gives me any value. and if I bet more I might have to call river because of pot odds.

Or am I using some messed up logic here :f_smile:


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checkdex
Joined: 17.10.2013

Preflop i 3 bet to 6.5 or 7x in postition and 8 oop, flop bet less if he have draw or pair he never fold and u still have him in the pot with Ax hands maybe ,turn i am not sure but river is more of the time fold , he have 77, 88, 99, TT, maybe JJ when not 4 bet in his range even i open Q9s here


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