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KK easy fold after flop x/r. But flop bet (size) was a mistake?

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Danyiii
Joined: 18.08.2009

UTG+1: 14/8/2 (63 hands), MP+1: 34/5/2 (103 hands)

Preflop 3-bet: I think the move itself is OK. But was the sizing also OK? 3x bet + 1 call = 4*4 BB = 16 BB? After reviewing the hand it is more likely to have a call from UTG+1 and smaller bet size could makes MP+1 a good spot to call smaller 3bet. (No significant data of F3B.)

Also after reviewing villain could have Ax most likely (something like AA, AK, KK, QQ, but I think we can exclude AQs and JJ), but should I also check the flop in this case? Based on this I think the flop bet was too big.

I think the situation was pretty standard, but I could saved a couple of BB by thinking during the hand.

Lessons learned: bet sizing, using stats in more detailed way online, not just checking, 'OK, it's not a maniac and something like that). It's 'good' to make mistakes like this so I can improve my way of playing a hand (= using stats and all the available information), not just playing based on the strength of my hand and use only a few stats. Even at NL2 several different aspects could came up for a cheap price.

Any other thoughts?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 37.5 BB
UTG: 100 BB
UTG+1: 149.5 BB
MP: 128.5 BB
MP+1: 127 BB
CO: 139.5 BB
Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 86.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♦ K♠

fold, UTG+1 raises to 4 BB, fold, MP+1 calls 4 BB, fold, Hero raises to 16 BB, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls 12 BB, fold

Flop: (37.5 BB, 2 players) 9♥ A♣ 2♦
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets 15 BB, UTG+1 raises to 30 BB, fold


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6 replies

3bets ok i usually do 3x ip and 4x oop and add on for any callers in this case 4x4+4=20bb. Postflop you could go smaller something between 1/4p to 1/3p so around 10bb to 12bb on such a dry A high board given your the aggressor in a 3bet pot on that flop. I wouldn't think 15bb is a big mistake or anything i just think the sizing is likely a tad to big here. Otherwise it looks ok i cant see worse raising on this flop given it hits your 3bet range. This is full ring though so it likely changes things slightly from what i play which is 6 max.


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monteCarlol
Joined: 24.08.2019

I'd check back flop here, your equity is robust, you can only get value from bluffs, and you will probably not be able to get any better hand to fold. Or let's put it that way, you need to bluff sometimes, and you can better use low SD value hands with backdoor equity.


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kacsa1st
Joined: 09.02.2007

Hi!

I am not used facing 4bb opens pre and FR ranges but imo your sizing is okay preflop.

This is the best sample of flops what you can range cbet for sure. If you do so it is fine to cbet sg between 5-10bb.

On the other hand if you want to build a check behind range this sould be your 1st candidate for that besides some weak Ax suited hands (if you had those bluffs pre).

The reason for it is you are way ahead or way behind. If he had Ax u r pretty much fckd but if he had high cards or pps you don't need protection and can't get value on multiple streets anyway.


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mbml
Joined: 27.11.2008

PF is fine

F: Could go either way
Cbet most of your range 1/4-1/3 pot bet OR Check back Flop. Betting 1/2 pot or more would be a terrible choice with your range and with your specific hand.

It really depends on what strategy you would like to use.

a) vs a brain-dead fish whose default thinking is "he checks the flop, he doesn't have anything so I should bluff"
check Flop and snap his turn + river bets
b) vs a thinking guy who thinks "this is a nice board to bluff, if he doesn't bet he has weak AX or KK-JJ"
his counter is to start blasting you off on Turn and overbet River OR to immediately give up and never make any moves.

You either check some air combos to delay bluff the Turn (to let him reveal his true hand strength on the Turn - he leads with AJ/AQ and checks most of his air OR you might get 88-TT to fold to a delayed bet that would otherwise have called once on the Flop if he thinks you would delay cbet only AX/KK-JJ and never air) WHILE checking back some AX hands that can snap Turn + River

OR you can use a simplified strategy of betting whole range with 30% pot size bet and then playing Turn (probably folding vs River probe bets unless you think he's capable of floating OOP with a hand like QcKc and bluffing River)


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Vampiir142
Joined: 01.10.2017

Preflop: I would not expect from him AA, QQ he would 4B this hand vs BB. You are blocking KK. When UTG call 3B I would expect hands like AK, TT-JJ more AK hands.
F: After flop bring A he has 95% Eq with AK vs 4 % for your KK. You have to call 15bb to pot 81bb - cca 15%.
If he rerising with + TT, JJ to bluf you, you have 62% Eq - 15bb is low price.


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Langerz
Joined: 29.03.2022

Preflop is fine. It's a small sample size but given stats I'd guess UTG has a pretty tight range like AQs and 99-JJ. Maybe some more pairs, maybe some more AJs or AK types of hands. I'd also assume you have a pretty tight range here yourself.

Flop as others have mentioned there's two ways to play. Cbet your whole range small or have a check behind range. You don't likely have a lot of draws in your range so splitting your range gets tough. Villain is also pretty polarized between 1) hands that beat you and likely aren't folding and 2) hand that you beat but probably aren't calling more than one street. I think I'd tend toward checking behind here.

Once you are raised I wouldn't ever give a 14/8 credit for bluffing here without a read so easy fold imo. I don't see players turning TT into a bluff here and he doesn't have a lot of worse combos to put into a bluffing range.


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