Originally posted by Dr1fter808
I played this hand like Amber Heard.
What did Amber hear?
I'm guessing it was a chorus of laughs.
That river shove is so polarized, but even so it was silly to call with JJ
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Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Originally posted by Dr1fter808
I played this hand like Amber Heard.What did Amber hear?
I'm guessing it was a chorus of laughs.That river shove is so polarized, but even so it was silly to call with JJ
I'm pretty sure he thinks I have TT/99, he called pretty quickly.
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 106.84 BB
SB: 95.8 BB
Hero (BB): 129 BB
UTG: 121.48 BB
MP: 77.44 BB
CO: 125.92 BB
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J♦ J♥
fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 2 BB, Hero raises to 6 BB, SB calls 4 BB
Flop: (12 BB, 2 players) T♠ 8♣ 7♥
SB bets 8.6 BB, Hero calls 8.6 BB
Turn: (29.2 BB, 2 players) 4♥
SB bets 20.92 BB, Hero calls 20.92 BB
River: (71.04 BB, 2 players) 7♠
SB bets 60.28 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 60.28 BB
SB shows T♦ Q♠ (Two Pair, Tens and Sevens)
(Pre 29%, Flop 19%, Turn 11%)
Hero shows J♦ J♥ (Two Pair, Jacks and Sevens)
(Pre 71%, Flop 81%, Turn 89%)
Hero wins 183.6 BB
You know what?
I like his commitment. Not sure if it is GTO.
Maybe it gets like this because of the small 3bet size.
vs 9BB 3bet size, I know that he is not supposed to fold to TBAI from me.
I think my range is speculative at best given preflop action.
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 102.36 BB
SB: 102.68 BB
BB: 125.2 BB
UTG: 128.28 BB
MP: 100 BB
Hero (CO): 107.64 BB
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has ? ?
fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.48 BB, fold, fold, BB raises to 10 BB, Hero calls 7.52 BB
Flop: (20.4 BB, 2 players) A♠ 8♠ 9♣
BB bets 6.44 BB, Hero calls 6.44 BB
Turn: (33.28 BB, 2 players) T♥
BB bets 23.84 BB, Hero calls 23.84 BB
River: (80.96 BB, 2 players) T♣
BB checks, Hero bets 67.36 BB and is all-in, BB calls 67.36 BB
Spoiler
This is an extremely tight player with 3% 3bet.<---He needs to be aware of his own image.
Hero shows Q♥ A♥ (Two Pair, Aces and Tens)
(Pre 46%, Flop 89%, Turn 84%)
BB shows J♦ J♥ (Two Pair, Jacks and Tens)
(Pre 54%, Flop 11%, Turn 16%)
Hero wins 207.68 BB
This is an interesting spot, because he is semi-bluffing on turn to fold out weak Aces also, and then on river I needed time to assess that the opponent likely has KK/QQ/JJ and not AK/AA, and then it goes back to him thinking about how I could have a decent Ace to shove on river, QJ is somewhat blocked so flush draws is more likely other than lower PP/SC that bluffs on river. To his credit, he used all of his time bank to make the call. It's a tough spot because block bet will not work against AQ>AJ.
If he shoves river then I might have to fold.
I like that you shoved this River. I might have checked back vs. the tight BB without even realising that I might have lost value. But still? WTF is happening here, why does he call?
What would you have done vs a Rivershove?
Originally posted by Infreed42
I like that you shoved this River. I might have checked back vs. the tight BB without even realising that I might have lost value. But still? WTF is happening here, why does he call?What would you have done vs a Rivershove?
You mean if he did shove river? vs 18/14/3B:3%, I might have to fold, if he bet smaller on turn and then shoved river then I fold for sure.
He calls because I can't have QJ/TJ(he has JJ) which narrows down my range to more missed draws, and strong Aces that shoves on river should 4bet preflop, but he needs to be aware that "vs 4bet frequency" is lower because he plays so tight.
Another reason he calls, is that although I play a TAG style poker, my fold to 3bet in position stats is lower than average, so depending on how and when he collected data such stats might even look loose.
Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Originally posted by Infreed42
I like that you shoved this River. I might have checked back vs. the tight BB without even realising that I might have lost value. But still? WTF is happening here, why does he call?What would you have done vs a Rivershove?
You mean if he did shove river? vs 18/14/3B:3%, I might have to fold, if he bet smaller on turn and then shoved river then I fold for sure.
He calls because I can't have QJ(he has JJ) which narrows down my range to more missed draws, and strong Aces that shoves on river should 4bet preflop, but he needs to be aware that "vs 4bet frequency" is lower because he plays so tight.
Another reason he calls, is that although I play a TAG style poker, my fold to 3bet in position stats is lower than average, so depending on how and when he collected data such stats might even look loose.
Yeah, thats what I was asking. Thanks for clarifing.
How loose are we talking about? Much more than 1/3 of your oppening range? Would be intresting to here your general idea about calling medium strong hands like suited connectors and smaller pairs (especially oop). I personally struggle playing those and therefore avoid those spots most of the time. -> Leads to a rather high fold to 3bet of 75%.
Originally posted by Infreed42
Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Originally posted by Infreed42
I like that you shoved this River. I might have checked back vs. the tight BB without even realising that I might have lost value. But still? WTF is happening here, why does he call?What would you have done vs a Rivershove?
You mean if he did shove river? vs 18/14/3B:3%, I might have to fold, if he bet smaller on turn and then shoved river then I fold for sure.
He calls because I can't have QJ(he has JJ) which narrows down my range to more missed draws, and strong Aces that shoves on river should 4bet preflop, but he needs to be aware that "vs 4bet frequency" is lower because he plays so tight.
Another reason he calls, is that although I play a TAG style poker, my fold to 3bet in position stats is lower than average, so depending on how and when he collected data such stats might even look loose.
Yeah, thats what I was asking. Thanks for clarifing.
How loose are we talking about? Much more than 1/3 of your oppening range? Would be intresting to here your general idea about calling medium strong hands like suited connectors and smaller pairs (especially oop). I personally struggle playing those and therefore avoid those spots most of the time. -> Leads to a rather high fold to 3bet of 75%.
75% is not high imo, mine is CO:64% BTN:65% SB:66%, I flat with the normal range like PP/SC/Axs/OC.
Originally posted by Dr1fter808
75% is not high imo, mine is CO:64% BTN:65% SB:66%, I flat with the normal range like PP/SC/Axs/OC.
Assuming 100bb effective stacks then it still depends on the bet sizings to determine your MDF vs 3bets. If i remember correctly with 3x 9x sizings the MDF is 28% but been donkeys years since ive even thought about it since range charts kind of negate the need to work it out for yourself these days.
I can find the maniacs but I can't beat them.
It sucks when it happens right at the beginning of the session too.
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 126.24 BB
Hero (SB): 100 BB
BB: 96.08 BB
UTG: 121.6 BB
MP: 97 BB
CO: 303.16 BB
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K♣ K♠
UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 14 BB, fold, UTG calls 11 BB
Flop: (29 BB, 2 players) 2♥ 8♥ 8♦
Hero bets 6.4 BB, UTG raises to 107.6 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 79.6 BB and is all-in
Turn: (201 BB, 2 players) 6♥
River: (201 BB, 2 players) 7♠
Hero shows K♣ K♠ (Two Pair, Kings and Eights)
(Pre 88%, Flop 66%, Turn 7%)
UTG shows 4♥ K♥ (Flush, King High)
(Pre 12%, Flop 34%, Turn 93%)
UTG wins 191 BB
This one is interesting since we've been talking about 65% fold to 3bet. Higher the stakes, lower the fold to 3bet, is what I read.
Obviously, when you are tilting a bit like I was it gets even lower trying to expand the possibilities to win bigger pots.
27/24/af:1.2/3B:11, 124 hands
A loose passive/aggressive player?
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 195.28 BB
SB: 101.4 BB
BB: 104.48 BB
UTG: 91.52 BB
MP: 112.48 BB
Hero (CO): 157.88 BB
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has ? ?
fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.48 BB, fold, SB raises to 10 BB, fold, Hero calls 7.52 BB
Flop: (21 BB, 2 players) 4♠ 3♥ 2♠
SB bets 12.68 BB, Hero calls 12.68 BB
Turn: (46.36 BB, 2 players) 2♦
SB checks, Hero bets 12 BB, SB raises to 78.72 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 66.72 BB
River: (203.8 BB, 2 players) K♠
Spoiler
SB shows T♦ T♥ (Two Pair, Tens and Twos)
(Pre 78%, Flop 3%, Turn 9%)
Hero shows 6♣ 5♣ (Straight, Six High)
(Pre 22%, Flop 97%, Turn 91%)
Hero wins 195.8 BB
At least I almost broke even for the session with this win. 
However, I think my expenditures were too high because I whiffed in seven occasions, that means I would've won money if I didn't call so many times, six 3bets and one 4bet. I know for certain that four of them were -EV, like no business calling at all, pure gamble, too speculative, oop and so on.
I'll show you one.
Against a tag with more than 1k hands, not a good situation to begin with.
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 100 BB
Hero (SB): 114.08 BB
BB: 105.52 BB
UTG: 111.4 BB
MP: 151.84 BB
CO: 69.24 BB
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 5♥ A♥
fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2.48 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, BB raises to 25.24 BB, fold, Hero calls 13.24 BB
Flop: (52.96 BB, 2 players) 8♣ 3♥ J♥
Hero checks, BB checks
Turn: (52.96 BB, 2 players) 6♣
Hero checks, BB bets 20.24 BB, Hero calls 20.24 BB
River: (93.44 BB, 2 players) K♠
Hero checks, BB checks
Hero shows 5♥ A♥ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 32%, Flop 37%, Turn 20%)
BB shows A♣ J♣ (One Pair, Jacks)
(Pre 68%, Flop 63%, Turn 80%)
BB wins 88.2 BB
Here is another one. Basically, I never open lower than 66 from UTG to begin with, so you know I'm tilting here a bit.
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 100.4 BB
SB: 101.4 BB
BB: 154.08 BB
Hero (UTG): 123.04 BB
MP: 41.64 BB
CO: 343.04 BB
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 5♥ 5♠
Hero raises to 2 BB, MP calls 2 BB, CO raises to 10.4 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 8.4 BB, fold
Flop: (24.2 BB, 2 players) 8♣ 7♠ 2♦
Hero checks, CO bets 11.56 BB, fold
CO wins 22.84 BB
I found some interesting spots to over bet.
Hand 1:
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 71.8 BB
SB: 100 BB
Hero (BB): 104.56 BB
UTG: 152.56 BB
MP: 114.6 BB
CO: 107.36 BB
SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 7♦ 9♦
fold, MP raises to 3 BB, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.6 BB, Hero calls 2 BB
Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) Q♣ 5♦ A♦
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, BTN checks
Turn: (12 BB, 4 players) K♠
SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, BTN checks
River: (12 BB, 4 players) 3♦
SB checks, Hero bets 16.24 BB, MP raises to 32.48 BB, fold, fold, Hero calls 16.24 BB
MP shows 4♣ 4♥ (One Pair, Fours)<---lol bluff from a Brazilian player
(Pre 48%, Flop 44%, Turn 66%)
Hero shows 7♦ 9♦ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 52%, Flop 56%, Turn 34%)
Hero wins 73.48 BB
Hand 2:
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 192.8 BB
Hero (SB): 127.84 BB
BB: 170.84 BB
UTG: 100 BB
MP: 151.16 BB
CO: 59.8 BB
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has T♠ 8♠
UTG raises to 2.28 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 1.88 BB, fold
Flop: (5.56 BB, 2 players) J♠ Q♣ 3♠
Hero checks, UTG bets 2 BB, Hero calls 2 BB
Turn: (9.56 BB, 2 players) 7♦
Hero checks, UTG checks
River: (9.56 BB, 2 players) A♠
Hero bets 12.96 BB, UTG calls 12.96 BB
Hero shows T♠ 8♠ (Flush, Ace High)
(Pre 40%, Flop 53%, Turn 34%)
UTG mucks A♥ K♣ (One Pair, Aces)<---He stalls, for what?, to raise or to fold?
(Pre 60%, Flop 47%, Turn 66%)
Hero wins 33.88 BB
Hand 3:
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 100 BB
Hero (SB): 108.6 BB
BB: 165.44 BB
UTG: 4.88 BB
MP: 163.6 BB
CO: 109.88 BB
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K♠ T♥
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB
Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 7♦ 6♠ J♠
Hero bets 3.16 BB, BB calls 3.16 BB
Turn: (12.32 BB, 2 players) 2♠
Hero checks, BB checks
River: (12.32 BB, 2 players) 6♥
Hero bets 16.68 BB, fold<---lol snap fold
Hero wins 11.76 BB
I'm not sure how much I like the Overbet in Hand 3. 6x and Jx basically have to call. You're getting folds by 88-TT (even tough not even in the range of most villians). Ax obv. folds, but a smaller bet would do it the same way. I think I'd rather Bet the Turn 2/3 and reevaluate on the River.
Originally posted by Infreed42
I'm not sure how much I like the Overbet in Hand 3. 6x and Jx basically have to call. You're getting folds by 88-TT (even tough not even in the range of most villians). Ax obv. folds, but a smaller bet would do it the same way. I think I'd rather Bet the Turn 2/3 and reevaluate on the River.
Sure, whatever works. TB here probably is better.
After missing a turn bet, it isn't really a good board to bluff when it pairs on river except for the fact that I have the flush blocker.
But my reputation is good though because I never bluff.
I still haven't incorporated over bets in to my game yet they just seem counterintuitive to me. You give yourself a bad price on your bluffs and increase your fold equity on your value hands.
Originally posted by RedsYNWA
I still haven't incorporated over bets in to my game yet they just seem counterintuitive to me. You give yourself a bad price on your bluffs and increase your fold equity on your value hands.
Just think about it in terms of polarizing your range. On the one hand your bluffs turn even decent holdings of your opponent into a mere bluff catcher and on the other hand your value hands use the same logic to induce herocalls since a premium holding has similiar value as a hand that barely beats A high.
Originally posted by RedsYNWA
I still haven't incorporated over bets in to my game yet they just seem counterintuitive to me. You give yourself a bad price on your bluffs and increase your fold equity on your value hands.
It’s just fun is all but you don’t need to do it.
Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Originally posted by RedsYNWA
I still haven't incorporated over bets in to my game yet they just seem counterintuitive to me. You give yourself a bad price on your bluffs and increase your fold equity on your value hands.It’s just fun is all but you don’t need to do it.
I do like the OB in hand 3.
With no showdown value on a paired board, it is all you can do.
If you make this play, you just can't do it too often.
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Originally posted by RedsYNWA
I still haven't incorporated over bets in to my game yet they just seem counterintuitive to me. You give yourself a bad price on your bluffs and increase your fold equity on your value hands.It’s just fun is all but you don’t need to do it.
I do like the OB in hand 3.
With no showdown value on a paired board, it is all you can do.
If you make this play, you just can't do it too often.
Well, you mirror it with the real deal. Do I do it often? I don't know.... I have one of the four post-flop bet sizing buttons set to "142% of pot" but I do make bet size adjustments sometimes like below, I just scroll it up some, like this villain below is a bit of calling station.
PokerStars - $0.25 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
BTN: 103.64 BB
Hero (SB): 103.2 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 17.2 BB
MP: 131.2 BB
CO: 244 BB
Hero posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has J♥ K♥
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, BB calls 2 BB
Flop: (6 BB, 2 players) 5♠ T♥ Q♥
Hero bets 1.2 BB, BB calls 1.2 BB<---I'm trying to induce a raise because I will stack off on flop with this hand.
Turn: (8.4 BB, 2 players) 7♥
Hero checks, BB checks
River: (8.4 BB, 2 players) 2♣
Hero bets 16 BB, fold
Hero wins 8.04 BB
My overbet is a bit more conservative — 103%
I use it against specific player types, usually when I have an unlikely nutted hand.
I've used it with air as well, but frequently pay for my bravado.
OTOH, when you "get caught" doing that, it lets others think that you do it often.