Is there value in 3betting river?

Why don't you lead the turn here? Top set on a code red board vs multiple opponents??? easiest lead of your life here!!
River is a tricky spot now does anyone ever slow play a straight or KK here?.... i doubt it i'd be tempted to shove i just can't imagine being beat... but saying that what does he really rep here with his raise. K7s? K10s? K7 should bet flop, K10 should bet turn. and now there's only 2 combos of those hands due to the double suited board.
I think probably a call he reps nothing but some slow played straight or complete air.

Originally posted by DecMate
Why don't you lead the turn here? Top set on a code red board vs multiple opponents??? easiest lead of your life here!!
River is a tricky spot now does anyone ever slow play a straight or KK here?.... i doubt it i'd be tempted to shove i just can't imagine being beat... but saying that what does he really rep here with his raise. K7s? K10s? K7 should bet flop, K10 should bet turn. and now there's only 2 combos of those hands due to the double suited board.
I think probably a call he reps nothing but some slow played straight or complete air.

I thought I was making a juice. But surely, donking turn is not wrong for sure.

The term "Donk" references to an out of line bet. The flop checked round so this is classed as a turn lead (for future reference).
What does making a juice mean? A slowplay? ♠_biggrin:
It's terrible to not bet the turn here. You're giving equity away and allowing hands as weak as 8x 9x to outdraw you. Lead turn lead river.

Originally posted by DecMate
The term "Donk" references to an out of line bet. The flop checked round so this is classed as a turn lead (for future reference).
What does making a juice mean? A slowplay? ♠_biggrin:
It's terrible to not bet the turn here. You're giving equity away and allowing hands as weak as 8x 9x to outdraw you. Lead turn lead river.

Yeah, thanks, that makes sense, leading, not donking, right.

Leading turn seems standard, but on the river as played it's tough to give villain credit for a straight or a set of kings. Seems like a easy shove.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Originally posted by SDK1987
Leading turn seems standard, but on the river as played it's tough to give villain credit for a straight or a set of kings. Seems like a easy shove.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Let's say this player is a reg, and I think he is, I don't think you should 3bet/shove here.

How would you play it? If you 3bet around 50bb on the river you are committed and looks stronger as well.

Originally posted by SDK1987
How would you play it? If you 3bet around 50bb on the river you are committed and looks stronger as well.

I'll show you how I would play it later.

These guys, the leather ass at 25NL/50NL, their range is very nutted, imo.

Thanks for input.

Please do not click on the spoiler below:

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by SDK1987
How would you play it? If you 3bet around 50bb on the river you are committed and looks stronger as well.

I'll show you how I would play it later.

These guys, the leather ass at 25NL/50NL, their range is very nutted, imo.

I guess so, but I would expect straights and over pairs would Cbet the flop and turn for value and protection in a multi multi way pot on a coordinated board like this.

Originally posted by SDK1987

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by SDK1987
How would you play it? If you 3bet around 50bb on the river you are committed and looks stronger as well.

I'll show you how I would play it later.

These guys, the leather ass at 25NL/50NL, their range is very nutted, imo.

I guess so, but I would expect straights and over pairs would Cbet the flop and turn for value and protection in a multi multi way pot on a coordinated board like this.

Ah, not always, here the villain is up against two regs, it's understandable that the villain takes this line in this case.

C'mon guys.

Both of u played it suboptimal.

1st of all vs (multiple) reg(s) we do not want a flatting range OOP, easy sqz preflop.

After flop x round we can still check and let them catch up w high cards cos most likely they have shit and all overpairs (AA, KK) should bet turn anyway.

Ofc we can lead turn but imo not the most EV line.

As played i would go for stacks OTR vs K7s, K6s, AK. But yeah i would got fcked cos he played bad on turn

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by SDK1987

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by SDK1987
How would you play it? If you 3bet around 50bb on the river you are committed and looks stronger as well.

I'll show you how I would play it later.

These guys, the leather ass at 25NL/50NL, their range is very nutted, imo.

I guess so, but I would expect straights and over pairs would Cbet the flop and turn for value and protection in a multi multi way pot on a coordinated board like this.

Ah, not always, here the villain is up against two regs, it's understandable that the villain takes this line in this case.

Yea, flop check is good with the least vulnerable over pairs. But they should bet turn.

I do not want to edit my 1st post.

Actually why do u lead river?
He can vbet or bluff the K if we check. By leading we get some value from Kx and make him fold all his potential bluffs.

I would go for xr/call OTR.
With xr we can get extra value from Kx.
And in the rarest occadion when we get shoved on we are on the top of our waaay underrepped range so i would call.

Originally posted by kacsa1st
I do not want to edit my 1st post.

Actually why do u lead river?
He can vbet or bluff the K if we check. By leading we get some value from Kx and make him fold all his potential bluffs.

I would go for xr/call OTR.
With xr we can get extra value from Kx.
And in the rarest occadion when we get shoved on we are on the top of our waaay underrepped range so i would call.

I thought I would get hero called by something like Ace high/minor PP because 2FD and some SD missed, and check/backs are likely given flop and turn action.

Originally posted by Dr1fter808
check/backs are likely given flop and turn action.

i would agree on most rivers but A or K

I'm probably going to 3 bet this preflop against an agressive player and call their 4 bet. I'm also looking to get heads up OOP.

As played, on that river I am looking to get stacks in as very few hands are beating my set of T's there. You have a premium made hand on a pretty good board..just go broke. If he wants to get busy with AK here or KT, or some very slowplayed worse set..great!

76s, T7s, K7s and even AA are possible holdings for the villain here to go all in with.

Effectively here 2 hands in his range are beating you out of like 20 possible hand combos he could want to get stacks in with.

Straight or KK type hand, you just got coolered. Oh well.

As for the raise size now on his 21bb raise...I would make it like 50bb...is just fine here..after a hollywood tank of course and hope he shoves.

Cheers!

The flop checked round so this is classed as a turn lead (for future reference).

Leading referes to a limped pot when nobody has the initiative. While donking referes to a raised pot with initiator. The fact that he checks on the flop changes nothing. Villian is still the "original" raiser and hero is non - aggressor. So i believe that the bet on the turn is donk

As for the hand. I would've squeeze preflop. Definetly a bet on the turn. Hero is on a big hand against 2 opponents on a draw heavy board. You want to protect your hand and build a pot for the river. As played i will call river but

Is there value in 3betting river?

Good question. I believe there it is. We might consider 3bet. Villian's line smells like AK. It seems like he reads you for a weaker king and wants to extract some value. Your hand is disguised and your line deceptive. I think AA/KK and straights will bet at some point so we must be good most of the time

Field tencencies might help. Villiain must be very tricky to play KK or straights like this Are the regulars are that tricky? Well, there is 1 regular that is that tricky. That's you

I'm probably going to 3 bet this preflop against an agressive player and call their 4 bet. I'm also looking to get heads up OOP.

Has 50NL really gotten to the point where people are playing back by 4betting? Granted it happens, but choosing that line against an aggressive player with no info on their 4betting tendencies seems like the wrong strategy. I feel most people will 3bet loosely but are pretty nitty with their 4bet ranges (AA,KK,AK). Thoughts?