PLO50 JT76ds facing turn pot lead with strong raw equity

Im surprised we have so much eq OTT vs nutstraight of course wih 45% you can shove and rep nuts and maybe you get better draws to fold. Normally you dont want to make draws fold when you have made hand but here the problem is that when flushdraw comes in it will be hard to fold.

with fd-1 + nutblocker + top2 I guess call turn + call decent rivers is my line

I think calling the turn is a terrible play for obvious reasons. No reason to slowplay without nuttiness.

I think calling the turn is a terrible play'

you mean with doubleFD like in the actual hand?

Yeah turn shove is indeed best option with our hand. If we were deeper like 200bb deep I would just call for same reason that we lack nuttiness. Which would become relevant in river play and of course also in case villain shove turn.

Other reason I posted this was villain hand which was 7765 without fd. I sort of see his reasoning in bet-calling turn if he assumes my range is either nuts or semibluff. But if I have hands like these he is completely crushed. I think it's interesting question how villain should play that hand.

If flop was rainbow I could even see some x-r potentially but probably not in two toned flop. In turn I think it's maybe x-c again though x-f might be best just for lack of equity and visibility for rivers.

Originally posted by efkay
I think calling the turn is a terrible play'

you mean with doubleFD like in the actual hand?

With 2 fd´s it´s pretty easy cause we are not in risk of being heavily dominated against anything even doing okay against nuts+redraw. But shoving strong non-nutted combos also applies to many situations where we have sth like set+ single nn-fd or in general where we lack visibility with strong combined equities especially oop where we would check-raise a large portion of such hands otf already to set up the turn-shove. Remember at SPR2 we can stack-off break-even with 40% equity. Check-calling is more a thing for marginal hands in heads-up where we try to "stop" villain from overrunning us with the bluffportion of his range or we feel like our blinds get stolen more directly.

All in all if we stack-off here with nutstraights and the mentioned combo-hands we will be like a 60:40 favourit range-vs-range long-term against nutstraight only. Furthermore the nuts by itself does not cover enough hands to maintain a decent continuing frequency nor has sufficient equity edge to compensate against a range that should gii.

If we get bluffed on a blank river where we might over- or underfold.. that´d be really bad in terms of EV. Solver defends a static and mixed range, we will already have troubles applying such a balanced game (we are supposed to stack-off x% of hands without a recognizable pattern) and it is tremendously harder to react well since 1. villain river tendencies usually are so deeply hidden in gray area and 2. he might switch gears and adapt at a moment we just barely can anticipate anymore. I mean if you face the river shove, do you know how much % of your made hand catergory you´d call down on this specific texture? For post 3-way late street betting rounds this is just impossible so avoid that decision and gii when equity allows us to do so imo. We are not going to get lots of value with a flush against a non-flush otr anyways because most player rather check-fold than bluff-shove allin blockers (which is another deviation from GTO leading us to be more cautios with calldowns). So if we do call and hit the flush solver will tell us to stack-off but in reality against an unknown or more value-heavy shoving range we are going to have a really tough decision.

Interesting hand. Turn SPR is around 4 and you are in position, the easiest way to play it is shoving but, I don't think is the Best.

Usually player pool tend to over protect their hands and don't Bluff/semibluff enough, and without info I would say that 95% of the time he has the str8, with or without 1 FD that could be better than yours, so as You are not pushing an equity edge with this hand, he most likely has the str8, the spr is 4 and you are IP, I would call and evaluate river and also Bluff on river 4 or 5

This same hand with diamonds and spades, I would also call and Bluff some rivers where I don't hit.

Probably I give much credit to pot bets vs unknowns.

One question, what would You do in the villain shoes with the naked str8 OOP and SPR 4? I would probably try a x/r to avoid an ugly desition on many Rivers in a very Big pot, but not sure what is the Best play.

Another question, what would you do on the turn if you xc with 77+FD without a board pair, like Ad7d7s9h. If you think villain is going to pot with those type of hands and also with all str8, then shove turn.

About a hand like 7765 without a FD, I would probably xr flop as a bluff blocking that much, if opponent call the xr, most likely has the FD and he can fold later on the hand... Nice that he is spew and bet/call turn with a bluff jajajajaja, but in his head I think he was not bluffing, he was protecting his hand vs draws... interesting