Originally posted by Harrier88
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Originally posted by Harrier88
Tuesday Tourneys14:43 - $3.30 Stud Hi-Lo
15:14 - $7.50 PL Courchevel Hi-Lo PKO
15:46 - $4.40 PL Five Card Draw PKO
It took a while, which is usually a good sign. Certainly longer than the rail session Prim and I could do on Skype - it's her turn to play again tomorrow. 
Stud8 had a great beginning. I was then very card dead for a while, but got a good stack again. My hopes of cashing were thwarted, however, by two great starting hands on 4th street where I got the chips in good, but simply wouldn't hit, dominating draws in both direction and yet losing them both.
5CD also didn't look too bad, but my good pots didn't bag any bounties, and I was eventually out by a mega cooler, pushing drawn KKKxx against drawn QQQAA (which drew three cards, if I remember correctly).
The game that showed the least promise by far in the beginning ended up being the most successful one: Courchevel started with a very long bad stretch early on, mostly card dead and losing a few pots. Then my patience got rewarded (10 minute blind levels, after all), and I got quite a run going, all the way to 9th place. It does sound good, but like so often in the last few days, it was just before the ranks that really start paying. $11.53 plus a $1.70 bounty result in a modest $5.72 profit that fails to cover all buy-ins for today. Not to mention that earning an FT finish would have been a great morale boost in this format.
As for the SNGs, 5CD fortunately cashed, ending a 9 game losing streak, though it was only enough for a 2nd place. Courchevel finished on the bubble, after I made some costly mistakes despite good play early on.
I don't have too many reasons to feel bad about play, I think, and the deep Courchevel run should be considered a success, yet it still feels disappointing somehow.
Would have been even cooler on a live stream:
PokerStars, $6.69 + $0.81 - Courchevel H/L Pot Limit - 50/100 - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat
UTG: 1,868 (19 bb)
MP (Hero): 2,400 (24 bb)
CO: 4,107 (41 bb)
BU: 4,587 (46 bb)
SB: 5,133 (51 bb)
BB: 2,800 (28 bb)
Pre-Flop: (150) 6♠ Hero is MP with 2♦ A♥ T♥ 4♣ 6♣
- "This will have to do..."
UTG calls 100, Hero raises to 200, 2 players fold, SB calls 150, BB calls 100, UTG calls 100
Flop: (800) 6♠ 5♣ K♦ (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 400, SB calls 400, BB folds, UTG raises to 1,668 (all-in),
- "I'll order one for you!"
Hero raises to 2,200 (all-in), SB calls 1,800
Turn: (6,868) 3♥ (3 players, 2 all-in)
River: (6,868) 7♠ (3 players, 2 all-in)
Total pot: 6,868
Showdown:
MP (Hero) shows 2♦ A♥ T♥ 4♣ 6♣ (HI: a straight, Three to Seven; LO: 6-5-3-2-A)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 42%, Flop: 34%, Turn: 67%, River: 75%)
UTG shows Q♣ 6♥ J♠ K♣ K♥ (HI: three of a kind, Kings)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 28%, Flop: 45%, Turn: 11%, River: 0%)
SB shows J♦ K♠ 7♥ A♦ 2♠ (HI: two pair, Kings and Sevens; LO: 6-5-3-2-A)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 29%, Flop: 21%, Turn: 22%, River: 25%)
MP (Hero) wins 5,151
SB wins 1,717
Sometimes the simplest approach works. 
Originally posted by Primrose6789
I think I said even: "May we have a 3 of hearts, please?"
You gotta ask politely.
Also, you need to be humble in your requests. Don't ask for the absolute nuts, just enough to get the hand you need.
For example, when I have something like A♣:5♦:7♥:K♣: in Badugi, I will ask for something like a 4 of spades, not a 2 of spades, which would be the best possible draw.
I guess it worked in that hand because better straights for the hi hand were possible...
Originally posted by Harrier88
Would have been even cooler on a live stream:
I have called a card on stream and received it. I can't remember if I called it by suit though.
I'm always amused when someone says, "One Time" more than once.
I've often seen 9 man turbo SNGs all registered by Brazilian players (especially in the late evening here in IE)
The aggression factor would likely be through the roof in those!
Getting ready...
There has still been some poker in the last few days, and some SNG success, but no need for daily updates unless something big happens.
For some non-poker news, I've done a little shopping trip today...
I'm really looking forward to get started with a new athletic hobby, after more than half a year of no organized sports. 
Still a few more weeks, but I'm just about ready. ♠_grin:
Another mincash that could have been so much more in the Badugi... I need to do better in those late phases after getting ITM. There have been several modest finishes in MTTs of all kinds that could have been some serious cashes.
We are starting to have some interesting results in the SNGs, and I could talk about them already, but I would prefer to gather some stats first, especially with the end of the month approaching and all. I still plan to play tomorrow, though, so I'm not sure if I will get to it already.
Shoddy play from me in two Courchevel SNGs, I guess I was just too tired tonight. I didn't play very well in that $1.10 8-Game MTT either.
Luckily, Badugi was a bit of a session saver, but once again without any big cashes, just an 11th place finish with decent bounties for total returns of $9.73, allowing me to roughly break even tonight.
I made some progress with the stats, I should be able to present some missing SNG graphs from last year tomorrow, and then convert everything for use with this year's ongoing games.
The Missing SNG Graphs
Okay, I'm done with the data. I can now finally present the finished 2022 graphs for my SNG grind.
We will deal with this one first before going into my current stats and results, because I had to work on my old spreadsheet first, which will also form the basis for my new one.
This is how it looked overall:
Note that I started working full time in March, which heavily impeded the grind. It got a bit of a revival in September due to even worse work hours, which made grinding MTTs nearly impossible and therefore left SNGs as my only realistic option for poker.
Five Card Draw was the meat of the grind. I entered quite a downswing after starting with that full time job, but recovered nicely during the SNG revival in September.
Stud Hi-Lo was swingy and didn't get a proper chance until the second half of the year, but it went well overall.
Courchevel had a hot start, but ended up breaking even. I expected more of the same when I picked it back up this year, so I am very surprised that it now turns out to be one of the more promising formats so far.
8-Game had so little traffic that I won't even bother with anything but a simple line chart. At least it went well.
This is the complete SNG breakdown by game type. Note that the Overall graph also includes some Hold'em games, which are not shown because the 6-max/9-max distinction in my original spreadsheet caused some issues with the data. Also, it's just Hold'em, who cares...
Current stats and graphs will follow tomorrow, hopefully.
Okay, time for the current SNG stats.
We are going in the right direction overall.
To get it out of the way first, Stud8 has been a big disappointment. Good start, then some free falling.
Five Card Draw had some good phases, but could use some help overall.
Then there is Courchevel, the biggest positive surprise when it comes to SNGs this year. It only had one month of playing time, but we made it count.
As expected, Courchevel is the MVP so far.
Here are the updated "Profit by Game" graphs that take all recorded games into account, even the late 2019 5CD SNGs that started it all.
I would have loved to properly scale the x-axis for years, but any attempt at doing so made the graph a nonsensical mess, as seen in the spoiler. So I apologize for the slightly ghetto look, it was the best I can do.
Spoiler
Finally, let's take a look at this year's finishing positions.
Sadly, the bubble is still my most likely place to finish at in 5CD. Whether it was bad luck or my own mistakes, a little push in the right direction here could have made a massive difference in the results.
A pretty even distribution here in Stud8, which is worrying. There is no considerable bias at all towards the higher placements, let alone the ITM ranks. Pretty poor heads-up conversion rate too.
Good stuff so far in Courchevel, with over 50% ITM and pretty good performance in heads-up spots.
Woooooooooooooooooow! You did a lot of work with those stats! Great job!! ♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:
Originally posted by Primrose6789
Woooooooooooooooooow! You did a lot of work with those stats! Great job!! ♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:
No kidding.
What graphing tool are you using to create these?
Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Originally posted by Primrose6789
Woooooooooooooooooow! You did a lot of work with those stats! Great job!! ♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:♠_thumbsup:No kidding.
What graphing tool are you using to create these?
Just vanilla OpenOffice. I actually learned a couple of new things about it last night.
I sometimes do minor touch-ups in Paint later, but for the most part, the graphs already come out looking okay.
Tonight's session looked really bad starting out, but fortunately was saved towards the end with 1st places in 5CD and Courchevel. I was starting to get on a bit of a losing streak again in Courchevel, with four games in a row failing to cash, so it was good to break the streak before it gets as bad as it was last year - you just saw the charts.
5CD meanwhile seems to get on a winning streak instead, with four games cashing in a row, though only the last one was shipped. After relatively inconsistent results so far this year, it may be just what we needed. It also helped us get past $50 in overall SNG profits this year. $250 were my goal for 2023, so we are not quite on pace yet, but after bad results in January, I think we are on the right track.
Daily Quads helped tonight:
PokerStars, $1.76 + $0.24 - 5 Card Draw Pot Limit - 50/100 (10 ante) - 6 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat
UTG: 1,490 (15 bb)
MP (Hero): 1,140 (11 bb)
CO: 1,390 (14 bb)
BU: 1,370 (14 bb)
SB: 1,545 (15 bb)
BB: 2,065 (21 bb)
Deal: (210) Hero is MP with 2♣ 2♥ J♣ 9♠ 2♦
UTG calls 100, Hero raises to 250, CO calls 250, 2 players fold, BB calls 150, UTG calls 150
Draw One: (1,110) 2♣ 2♥ 9♠ 2♦ 2♠ (4 players)
BB draws 1, UTG draws 1, MP (Hero) draws Jc, CO draws 2
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 555, CO calls 555, 2 players fold
Total pot: 2,220
Showdown:
MP (Hero) shows 2♣ 2♥ 9♠ 2♦ 2♠ (four of a kind, Twos)
CO mucks 8♣ 8♥ 8♠ 6♦ 5♣ (three of a kind, Eights)
MP (Hero) wins 2,220
I picked up a pat straight in the very next hand to get the rest of his chips too.
Open Limping in PL Five Card Draw - Good or Bad?
I hate limpers... we all do, don't we? Well, I see a lot of limping in my PL 5CD SNGs. Normally, I think that I just need to isolate them with my standard ranges and then hopefully punish them, but often times, they seem to get into a favorable position postdraw with their limp/call.
It is not a secret that the old wisdom of "open limping is always wrong, in all forms of poker!" does not really hold up anymore - just ask any good short deck Hold'em player. This format is often cited as the exception to the rule, but I'm wondering if it's the only one... and if this annoying open-limping may have a place in PL (and possibly NL) Five Card Draw too. After all, if it annoys me, it is likely doing something right from their point of view.
I have one hand saved from my latest game, which went in my favor that time, but only because I hit my draw:
PokerStars, $1.76 + $0.24 - 5 Card Draw Pot Limit - 150/300 (30 ante) - 4 players
Hand delivered by CardsChat
UTG: 1,275 (4 bb)
BU (Hero): 1,505 (5 bb)
SB: 2,240 (7 bb)
BB: 3,980 (13 bb)
Deal: (570) Hero is BTN with Q♠ K♦ T♦ 2♣ K♣
UTG calls 300, Hero raises to 600, 2 players fold, UTG calls 300
Draw One: (1,770) K♦ K♣ 8♠ 8♥ 3♦ (2 players)
UTG draws 1, BU (Hero) draws Qs Td 2c
UTG bets 645 (all-in), Hero calls 645
Total pot: 3,060
Showdown:
UTG shows 9♥ 9♠ 6♦ 6♥ J♦ (two pair, Nines and Sixes)
BU (Hero) shows K♦ K♣ 8♠ 8♥ 3♦ (two pair, Kings and Eights)
BU (Hero) wins 3,060
Sure, I hit a better two pair and won, but what happens in the roughly 73% of times when I don't? If my opponent makes a standard predraw raise with their two pair, they collect the blinds here, and that's it. By limping, they got me to commit my chips to isolate them, and then get me into a bad spot where I am chasing a draw against them and may even end up speculating that they are drawing to a straight or flush instead, potentially getting me to double them up with a bluff catch.
What if I overlimped instead? Then I would be in a three-way pot with my KKxxx, which is not great, and still commit a good chunk of my stack at these blind levels. My situation postdraw is not any better either.
What if I just folded? It may get me out of this spot, but if I simply fold my playable hands in these spots to any limp (of which there are a lot, as I mentioned), it could be easy to get me to blind out. I could just tighten up my raising range waiting for a good point to counter-attack, but similar problem.
I have seen a lot of open limping in 5CD MTTs too, especially from the SB position. Seems like you would just have to raise them with playable hands in BB, which is what I tend to do, and which sometimes gives me an opportunity to check behind with showdown hands postdraw, but in the later blind levels, this may also put me into a spot where I get easily check-raised out of the pot.
Does open limping have a place in PL Five Card Draw? I'm not sure, what do you think?
Originally posted by Harrier88
Open Limping in PL Five Card Draw - Good or Bad?I hate limpers... we all do, don't we? Well, I see a lot of limping in my PL 5CD SNGs. Normally, I think that I just need to isolate them with my standard ranges and then hopefully punish them, but often times, they seem to get into a favorable position postdraw with their limp/call.
It is not a secret that the old wisdom of "open limping is always wrong, in all forms of poker!" does not really hold up anymore - just ask any good short deck Hold'em player. This format is often cited as the exception to the rule, but I'm wondering if it's the only one... and if this annoying open-limping may have a place in PL (and possibly NL) Five Card Draw too. After all, if it annoys me, it is likely doing something right from their point of view.
In tournament play, limping is a valid strategy. In cash games less so, unless you balance your limping range somehow. I've selected two hands — trip 3s or lower and K or Q-high flush draws as limpers. I also limp dealt quads and dealt straight-flushes (or straight-flush draws).
In NL 5-Card Draw cash, most of the good players will raise pot over one limper (sometimes two) — but rarely flat.
I've no idea yet if the above strategy makes any sense — I'm still working on it.