Flop bottom set, non-nut full house on the river

Shove

Dont like the tricky play OTF. Bet on AK board vs 2. Up to 75%. As played bigger bet OTT. 75%. Again shitty bets. OTR i am gonna make massive overbet 150-170%

Pre...iso raise is fine, with 77 I prefer over limp..Imo at least 5x iso raise or no iso raise...

OTF..You have high FE here, they will check back a lot as well, 50% bet is fine I think...Kx, QJ, JT , QT...

OTT, bet ~70%, Ax...

OTR, over bet, ~140%...Ax, Kx..You can play this with check or small bet...And check shove or 3bet shove...Which is better? I don't know...In play I will do over bet...

Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Shove

Why you would shove the river?

I would go for around $2 bet for value. I don't think you get much value if you shove for almost 3 times pot and is tough for villain to have to many weaker hands that would call the river.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Originally posted by SDK1987

Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Shove

Why you would shove the river?

I would go for around $2 bet for value. I don't think you get much value if you shove for almost 3 times pot and is tough for villain to have to many weaker hands that would call the river.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Why not?

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by SDK1987

Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Shove

Why you would shove the river?

I would go for around $2 bet for value. I don't think you get much value if you shove for almost 3 times pot and is tough for villain to have to many weaker hands that would call the river.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Why not?

I think villain will fold almost any hand you beat with a over bet shove. Don't forget it's not to likely villain has a ace after the limp pre-flop and passive play post-flop. I would try to get value of a king.

Originally posted by SDK1987

Originally posted by Dr1fter808

Originally posted by SDK1987

Originally posted by Dr1fter808
Shove

Why you would shove the river?

I would go for around $2 bet for value. I don't think you get much value if you shove for almost 3 times pot and is tough for villain to have to many weaker hands that would call the river.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Why not?

I think villain will fold almost any hand you beat with a over bet shove. Don't forget it's not to likely villain has a ace after the limp pre-flop and passive play post-flop. I would try to get value of a king.

I would target Ax in this type of situations. It would be such a waste of value to let this go. Big hand big bet.

bet 50%-60% OTF,
Turn 70%?,
River shove

Big hand big bet.

Shove OTF then :f_biggrin:, you have the nuts..i saw some discussions in the past , for similar situations. There it remains unsolved..This guy Collin Moshman was there, I remember..The coach..He said "shove is the best play". And he did a lot of work to prove that. But I and the others obv are not sure about this.

On flop you have 3 options and I prefer just betting myself. This board may look scary for your opponents(you raised pre so you have all AK, AA,KK) so I wouldnt count on them stabing wide or calling your check/raise. So i bet 1/3-1/2 pot on flop, then bet big(75%+) on turn and shove river. As for your line you may shove, you may use overbet... just dont try to induce. If they had pair of aces and checked back flop then they may not find courage to raise big with trips made on river.

Well OTR it was shove or overbet.
My argument against shoving is that in general when I shove the nuts I just get folds.
Pretty much the same with overbets.

In this case though, since they both called the turn, I figured that at least one of them had a hand, but unlikely a better one, so I shoved.

One fold one called with Kx

when I shove the nuts I just get folds.

Bare in mind it's possible that your image is way too tight/nitty and you play in a predictible manner. In order to get action with your big hands you need to be more aggressive and deceptive

Originally posted by NapoleonBonaparte135

when I shove the nuts I just get folds.

Bare in mind it's possible that your image is way too tight/nitty and you play in a predictible manner. In order to get action with your big hands you need to be more aggressive and deceptive

Yes, I'm aware of that. I've been trying to expand a bit, and when you're actually bluffing your pants off, that uber-tight reputation comes in handy.

So I was thinking of this very thread when a similar situation came by today. Not exactly I guess, but similar.

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 6 players

UTG: $25.00 (100 bb)
MP (Hero): $25.00 (100 bb)
CO: $27.46 (110 bb)
BU: $42.15 (169 bb)
SB: $25.00 (100 bb)
BB: $33.88 (136 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is MP with 9♦:9♠:
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.60, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.60, 2 players fold

Flop: ($1.55) 6♠:J♣:9♥: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Turn: ($2.55) T♠: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.68, BTN raises to $3.36, Hero raises to $23.90 (all-in), BTN calls $20.54

River: ($50.35) 7♠: (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $50.35 (Rake: $2)

Showdown:
MP (Hero) shows 9♦:9♠: (three of a kind, Nines)
(Equity - Turn: 91%, River: 100%)

BU shows T♦:K♠: (a pair of Tens)
(Equity - Turn: 9%, River: 0%)

MP (Hero) wins $48.35

when I shove the nuts I just get folds.

Isn't it natural? If you bet lets say 2/3 then its obvious you will get call a lot more often than if you bet 2x pot. But does it make 2/3 better by default?

So I was thinking of this very thread when a similar situation came by today. Not exactly I guess, but similar.

Guy who min check/raises you on turn with second pair and then call you off is whale. He doesnt care about your image and so on. He likes his hand so he calls. Against guy like him huge bets are extremely efficient as he will likely call a lot wider than he should.

When you choose your size for value bet, you have certain target..You want to give a "good" price to this target. It's like "selling" in the real life. The price can be "extremely high", but if you have enough "costumers", can be the max EV...You can "induce" a raise , if you expect this target to raise often enough (the price is too low for them)..And some other "costumers" probably will like the low price (for call)...You can also use some tricks, for example you can bet 1.85 for value and 2.00 for bluff. like the sellers in the real life. It's working sometime...1.99 looks very suspicious, obvious...This is not a joke..The top MTT players do that vs obv recreational players...For example, if your range is tight preflop, you can use 2.8x, instead of 3x (wider range)..If you play against weak field. Vs strong field you use the smaller size, when your range is wide...Because they fold more and 3bet more...

Also the pot size bet looks "very ugly", "high", if you want to "sell" something...It's beter to use over bet...Very often the guy who "like" pot size bet , will like the over bet as well..More value in the overbet, less in the por size bet...If you bet for value..If you are bluffing, then the pot size will be "perfect". But you must be careful..Look for good players. It's a small value in this "tricks", but if someone notice this, he will destroy you...