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Why auto-reload is a mark of a fish? (It's not)

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AcesMagnet
Joined: 13.06.2023

I get the reason why your typical grinder wants to buyin for the maximum allowed. You're artificially limiting your potential by sitting with less in front of you.

But what I don't get is why turning OFF the auto-topup feature marks you out to be a fish (it's one of the five non-HUD attributes of a fish in poker coach Blackrain69 list - not linking his youtube but no doubt you'll have seen his channel if you've ever looked up poker on google).

AFAIR the sites/skins I have used to date have auto-topup/reload turned ON as default for cash games. So you have to manually turn it off. Would a fish choose to do this?

Okay, so why do I do this? It's simple - it saves me money! Let's be clear - I will top up when I go below 100bb (or whatever the max is), but I will not topup 1bb!

Why, you ask? It is bad for my bankroll!!! So, the first site I ever used when I noticed this, was Grosvenor - an iPoker skin - and for this skin my account was in GBP(Β£) but the cash tables are EURO(€). When they convert to/from currency, they use a set exchange rate - but, they round to the nearest that's favourable to THEM - and whilst 1 cent might seem like nothing, when you are playing NL2 you are paying double each time you take that 1bb auto topup! Go under 100bb to 99.5bb, that 1 cent topup just cost me 2 cents.

So I would try to wait, maybe I steal the blinds before the next tine I post, and I'm back above 100bb. I'll topup if and when I drop, say 10bb, or at a point when either I'm not losing out on the currency exchange, or when the extra 1 cent is not 50% (even 20%!) on the value!

So that's why I do not auto topup. And, until I saw the Blackrain list of 5 things that mark a fish in online poker 1023, I considered anyone who didn't turn off auto topup, to be a fish! Weird.


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Auto top-up is recommended at PokerStrategy.com also.
See: What is the Big Stack Strategy?
It doesn't say why though...
In no particular order here is why I think auto-top-up is important:
:diamond: Β As you pointed out, maximum potential
:diamond: Β You don't have to take your own stack into consideration when checking effective stack size.
:diamond: Β You don't need to take the time to manually top up after a loss.
:diamond: Β Adds to your TAG style to project a strong image.

Sometimes though, I will not top up, because then it looks like I'm a fish.
I don't need to worry about saving money by keeping a small stack β€” I have a fold button for that.[1]

There is a specific mid-stack strategy that can be employed on sites like 888 that allow 40BB buy-ins. Apart from the fact that I've never been successful using that strategy, I don't like it, because when I do win, it always seems like I could have won more.

[1] It took me a while to find it, and sometimes it disappears for a while :coolface:


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AcesMagnet
Joined: 13.06.2023

I don't need to worry about saving money by keeping a small stack β€” I have a fold button for that.

(I think?) You missed the point why I turn off the auto topup... it saves me from giving free money to the poker site during the currency exchange in those situations, NL2, where you're topping up around one blind (well not just these occasions, but this is where it is a significant size of the transaction).

For clarity, I do topup, but at points where it wouldn't so detrimental to my bottom line over the long term. Like maybe once every orbit if need be, or if I drop 10%, not 1-2% πŸ˜‚

Example, if I fold my first hand after waiting to post the big blind (btw another indicator of a fish, they refuse to wait!) topping up one blind costs me two blinds! Lets say there is a particularly dry period of three orbits, so I haven't opened nor defended my blinds; in never playing a hand & assuming no ante, I've auto topped-up six times, (3bb and 3sb) at a cost of 7.5bb*, I'm losing 3bb over this small period of time for merely folding my hands! Forger losing out to the rake! I'm losing out to the exchange rate roundings! πŸ˜‚

* math is, for topping up 1bb costs 1.5bb, and topping up 1sb costs 2sb (1bb), so 3bb + 3sb + 3sb + 3sb = 7.5bb


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

If there is conversion rate in client it would obviously be best to have same currency in cashier and tables. If this is possible but of course there might be need to do conversion at some point anyway if this issue exist in first place.


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by AcesMagnet
I'm losing out to the exchange rate roundings! πŸ˜‚

Do the currency exchange outside the client wherever possible.
Playing in $US? Deposit in $US. NEVER use a poker site as a currency exchange.
I use a tool called "MuchBetter". It is an online wallet on my phone. I top up the balance there in $CAD, and when I want to deposit, I deposit in $US and MuchBetter gives me a much better exchange rate. Even better than using Interac which is what I used before.

I don't know what GGPoker's deposit methods are, It has been ages since I deposited there.
(I just checked β€” MuchBetter works on GG)


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AcesMagnet
Joined: 13.06.2023

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by AcesMagnet
I'm losing out to the exchange rate roundings! πŸ˜‚

Do the currency exchange outside the client wherever possible.
Playing in $US? Deposit in $US. NEVER use a poker site as a currency exchange.
I use a tool called "MuchBetter". It is an online wallet on my phone. I top up the balance there in $CAD, and when I want to deposit, I deposit in $US and MuchBetter gives me a much better exchange rate. Even better than using Interac which is what I used before.

I don't know what GGPoker's deposit methods are, It has been ages since I deposited there.
(I just checked β€” MuchBetter works on GG)

My GG account is in dollars, conversions are only applied during deposits and withdrawals. But that's the only one I know of that works this way (and Stars, IIRC, but it's been so long since I deposited or withdrew there. I know my balance is dollar, so that answers the question).

All the other sites that work in the UK have a GBP balance! They may or may not have GBP tables, but these are often empty - if you want to access the fish then that means playing during peak times and playing the currency table they are playing at. Which isn't GBP.

TBF, it's only the iPoker skin(s) that I noticed this and it being to such an extent that it would impact any profits before rakeback.

My partypoker balance is in GBP too - I hesitate to say that this is a UK regulatory issue, because GG UK doesn't have the balance in GBP.


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by AcesMagnet

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by AcesMagnet
I'm losing out to the exchange rate roundings! πŸ˜‚

Do the currency exchange outside the client wherever possible.
Playing in $US? Deposit in $US. NEVER use a poker site as a currency exchange.
I use a tool called "MuchBetter". It is an online wallet on my phone. I top up the balance there in $CAD, and when I want to deposit, I deposit in $US and MuchBetter gives me a much better exchange rate. Even better than using Interac which is what I used before.

I don't know what GGPoker's deposit methods are, It has been ages since I deposited there.
(I just checked β€” MuchBetter works on GG)

My GG account is in dollars, conversions are only applied during deposits and withdrawals. But that's the only one I know of that works this way (and Stars, IIRC, but it's been so long since I deposited or withdrew there. I know my balance is dollar, so that answers the question).

All the other sites that work in the UK have a GBP balance! They may or may not have GBP tables, but these are often empty - if you want to access the fish then that means playing during peak times and playing the currency table they are playing at. Which isn't GBP.

TBF, it's only the iPoker skin(s) that I noticed this and it being to such an extent that it would impact any profits before rakeback.

My partypoker balance is in GBP too - I hesitate to say that this is a UK regulatory issue, because GG UK doesn't have the balance in GBP.

OK I understand.
I don't play on Party, not on any iPoker skins. I have a balance on Party. I'll play a bit there for the lulz to see what happens.
AFAIK, iPoker doesn't operate in Canada β€” or at least all the iPoker skins I once played on have gone.


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Stray777
Joined: 11.04.2023

lol every good player tops up and auto buyins


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by Stray777
lol every good player tops up and auto buyins

Hi Stray777,
Welcome to PokerStrategy.com forums :welcome:

This is perhaps true in hold'em, maybe also Omaha β€” but I don't play Omaha so I wouldn't know for certain.
In PLO8, Stud Hi/Lo, Razz, 5-Card draw and lowball there are very good players that don't do either.

I don't see that auto-buyin and auto-top-up tell anything at all about how competent a player is.
Apart from saving time, I don't see the big deal about auto-buy in.
In games where the stacks get in a lot, though, it makes sense to always have the biggest stack you can.
In games where the stacks don't get in much, it really doesn't matter.


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SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

Indeed. In No Limit and pot limit games covering the stacks is more important than in limit games.
In limit games you can't win entire stacks most of the time in 1 hand or villain would be really short.


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taavi1337
Joined: 29.05.2009

if you have more bb you have more room to maneuver with bluffs vs people


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Stray777
Joined: 11.04.2023

if i lose like 50bb with a 100bb stack, i dont want to play the next hand with 50bb


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by Stray777
if i lose like 50bb with a 100bb stack, i dont want to play the next hand with 50bb

Agreed.
At one time, it was possible to switch to a "short-stack strategy", but when you do win, you win less.


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