PLO50 3bp oop with weak KK turnplay at spr 0.5

I would just open fold pre if I assume fair amount of 3bets behind. As played probably still prefer folding to 3bet. Deep stacked in position we fold less but oop I think it works other way around. You can argue to defend more versus wider 3bet range but this hand is quite rough from how it flops.

On flop we have pretty dry hand with only bottom pair and no bd draws. It's good in a way that if villain doesn't have AA we have best made hand fair amount of time. But he can also have fair amount of stuff like pair+gs+bdfd+A and versus hand like that we are roughly flipping I think. Also rarely crushing versus anything.

So as default I would just fold flop or call if I have strong read that villain does lot of one stab aggression postflop.

As played on turn it sucks but probably just x-f time. A improve such big portion of his range beside some mid high 7xxx.

PS: With 100bb stacks this would be fine spot to x-shove versus this villain but we risk lot with weak hand when this deep.

Imo your flop play was a foundational amistake. This is a common over reaction to maniacs, where players essentially play their game and start going wild with any piece. When we decide to c/r stack off on the flop we have no idea if we have the best hand or not. We're just hoping. That's not how I play poker, especially not 200 bb deep. If I'm stacking off, it's because there is a very strong % chance i have the best hand. Also 12% three bet isn't that much. What sort of sample did u have? 3 bet stats can take a while to converge.

I would just open fold pre if I assume fair amount of 3bets behind. As played probably still prefer folding to 3bet. Deep stacked in position we fold less but oop I think it works other way around. You can argue to defend more versus wider 3bet range but this hand is quite rough from how it flops.

+1

yes I had that in mind aswell.

What sort of sample did u have?

400 hands so that was quite reliable as you won´t collect too many hands against maniacs usually. The average 3bet was 12% but that´s quite a lot of hands if you do not select your spots well. His positional 3bet give hints that his ranges are out of whack (30% BU vs EP and 25% SB vs BU).

Flop: (€12.75, 2 players) 2♥: 3♠: 7♦:
Hero checks, BTN bets €9.56, Hero raises to €41.43, BTN calls €31.87

Turn: (€95.61, 2 players) A♣:
Hero bets €51.21, BTN calls €51.21

River: (€198.03, 2 players) 5♦:

Results: €198.03 pot (€1.50 rake)
Final Board: 2♥: 3♠: 7♦: A♣: 5♦:

Hero mucks K♦: 2♣: J♠: K♣:: (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 54%, Flop 37%, Turn 0%)

BTN shows 4♥: 5♣: 9♣: 7♥:: (Straight, Five High)
(Pre 46%, Flop 63%, Turn 100%)

BTN wins €196.53

Ott indeed he overtook me but I felt committed with the very low SPR and his perceived loose bet-calling range otf so I just shoved anyways. I admit I would have like the check-fold better on that specific card.

This is the issue:

Originally posted by ghaleon
This is the issue:

I expect villain to hold more hands here than just 9♣:7♥:5♣:4♥: lol.

I´d be fine to gii otf on if SPR would be a little lower.

Yeah just referred to "he got me" mention

But yeah hand that continues versus flop raise likely have minimum of 10 outs more or less if behind. I doubt better will fold.

You mean because of the ott?

When ranges are loose, things become pretty wild in PLO. Just like the QQ99:s:s hand you posted.^^

Flop SPR is a bit over 7,5. Turn is not the interesting nor important street here. The more important is preflop and flop. Problem with mediocre KK versus aggros is that they rarely flop really strong. Most of the time you have an overpair and no idea where you are in the hand, just like here. To call a 3bet, you hope to hit a Kxx flop or an overpair and fd. Most of the times you have to either play for big pot with bluff catcher and hope opponent is semibluffing or use it more as a bluff catcher yourself. OOP versus wide ranges and opponent who can overplay hands makes life of a KKxx really hard. I mean, if he is that wide, why not just shove it pre then? You are not afraid of AA, as you are willing to stack off on this board?

On the flop the problem is that when he bets, he usually should have something. He might do it with air, but if he has any pair or OESD at least (range of 2,3,7, 45) you are flipping. And that is the bottom of his continuation range. On any turn except 2, J or K you have no idea if you are even ahead as all other cards are potential scare cards. And you kinda have to shove on any turn. So you are making a raise for stacks at high SPR with a hand, that is flipping in best case scenario versus his continuation range.

You are not afraid of AA, as you are willing to stack off on this board?

No. I mean I had really strong reads, and the light flop is just perfect to gii. I´d expect myself to be ahead way more often, he will 3bet-continue all kinda of overpairs like :Tx::Tx: to :Qx::Qx:, I could even imagine villain gii with just mid-pair or the bare oesd maybe even gs+bdfd+2oc. In a hand later on he stacked off against me at a similar SPR with one pair+weak draw ott.

But you have a point that my flop equity distribution is very bad. There are too many flops that devalue my hand so I should have folded preflop. I basically have no playability too often at a too high SPR but at that specific flop I am fine with sticking it in I guess.