[Closed] Probably already asked 100 times but... Is poker online rigged?

Here is a classic example of what Im talking about... that just happened and they kick me out in 9th place!

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PokerStars Game #31866344933: Tournament #188750914, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (600/1200) - 2009/08/20 20:43:12 ET
Table '188750914 8' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: mountrath 1 (33399 in chips)
Seat 2: cyprususa (9167 in chips)
Seat 3: tuktukbkk (8065 in chips)
Seat 4: z 0 0 t s (91393 in chips)
Seat 5: blkchpj (23520 in chips)
Seat 6: slim99slim (27725 in chips)
Seat 7: drx975 (27928 in chips)
Seat 8: PeppeSwe (8658 in chips)
Seat 9: perkele99 (40145 in chips)
mountrath 1: posts the ante 125
cyprususa: posts the ante 125
tuktukbkk : posts the ante 125
z 0 0 t s: posts the ante 125
blkchpj: posts the ante 125
slim99slim: posts the ante 125
drx975: posts the ante 125
PeppeSwe: posts the ante 125
perkele99: posts the ante 125
cyprususa: posts small blind 600
tuktukbkk: posts big blind 1200
HOLE CARDS
Dealt to tuktukbkk [9s 9c]
z 0 0 t s: folds
blkchpj: folds
slim99slim: folds
drx975: folds
PeppeSwe: folds
perkele99: folds
mountrath 1: raises 32074 to 33274 and is all-in
cyprususa: folds
tuktukbkk: calls 6740 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (25334) returned to mountrath 1
FLOP [9d Tc Qs]
TURN [9d Tc Qs] [Js]
RIVER [9d Tc Qs Js] [2h]
SHOW DOWN
tuktukbkk: shows [9s 9c] (three of a kind, Nines)
mountrath 1: shows [8d Ah] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
mountrath 1 collected 17605 from pot
SUMMARY
Total pot 17605 | Rake 0
Board [9d Tc Qs Js 2h]
Seat 1: mountrath 1 (button) showed [8d Ah] and won (17605) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 2: cyprususa (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: tuktukbkk (big blind) showed [9s 9c] and lost with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 4: z 0 0 t s folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: blkchpj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: slim99slim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: drx975 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: PeppeSwe folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: perkele99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Good god pleas if you are going to post hands use a converter, there are tons and they are free. He turned a jack to make his gutshot, big deal, this makes you think online poker is rigged? If the hands were revesed and you made the gutshot would you be out here talking about the riggedness of online poker?

[ ]rigged
[x] chicken little

Originally posted by lennonac
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE JUST STOP

i am with him!!

is poker online rigged?

yes obv.

Also since you have already paid the tournament fee what exactly would they gain from rigging a tournament?

Ooooh short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but

Dealt to freepokerm [9s 9c]

Oh hai there!

Originally posted by tuktukbkk
Here is a classic example of what Im talking about... that just happened and they kick me out in 9th place!

__________________________________________________________
PokerStars Game #31866344933: Tournament #188750914, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (600/1200) - 2009/08/20 20:43:12 ET
Table '188750914 8' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: mountrath 1 (33399 in chips)
Seat 2: cyprususa (9167 in chips)
Seat 3: tuktukbkk (8065 in chips)
Seat 4: z 0 0 t s (91393 in chips)
Seat 5: blkchpj (23520 in chips)
Seat 6: slim99slim (27725 in chips)
Seat 7: drx975 (27928 in chips)
Seat 8: PeppeSwe (8658 in chips)
Seat 9: perkele99 (40145 in chips)
mountrath 1: posts the ante 125
cyprususa: posts the ante 125
tuktukbkk : posts the ante 125
z 0 0 t s: posts the ante 125
blkchpj: posts the ante 125
slim99slim: posts the ante 125
drx975: posts the ante 125
PeppeSwe: posts the ante 125
perkele99: posts the ante 125
cyprususa: posts small blind 600
tuktukbkk: posts big blind 1200
HOLE CARDS
Dealt to freepokerm [9s 9c]
z 0 0 t s: folds
blkchpj: folds
slim99slim: folds
drx975: folds
PeppeSwe: folds
perkele99: folds
mountrath 1: raises 32074 to 33274 and is all-in
cyprususa: folds
tuktukbkk: calls 6740 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (25334) returned to mountrath 1
FLOP [9d Tc Qs]
TURN [9d Tc Qs] [Js]
RIVER [9d Tc Qs Js] [2h]
SHOW DOWN
tuktukbkk: shows [9s 9c] (three of a kind, Nines)
mountrath 1: shows [8d Ah] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
mountrath 1 collected 17605 from pot
SUMMARY
Total pot 17605 | Rake 0
Board [9d Tc Qs Js 2h]
Seat 1: mountrath 1 (button) showed [8d Ah] and won (17605) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 2: cyprususa (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: tuktukbkk (big blind) showed [9s 9c] and lost with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 4: z 0 0 t s folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: blkchpj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: slim99slim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: drx975 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: PeppeSwe folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: perkele99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Hello tuktukbkk,

I really don't see any relevance between this hand and online poker being rigged.

The button pushes A8o which is pretty standard given the antes, blinds, his stack and your stack. I would have done the same thing, no matter if online or live. You find 99 in the big blind and make the call- which is also standard.

After that the action is CLOSED. You are both all-in - so there are no bets from this moment on. You are a favorite with 99 and will win the hand 70.993%% of the time. The other 29.007% of the time he will win. This calculation is based on the 1,712,304 different combinations of flop, turn and river cards that can possibly fall to decide the final outcome. Yet whether you are ahead on the flop and lose to a gutshot on the turn has absolutely no relevance whatsoever - since you were all-in preflop. As such the equity when the money went is also what is relevant - and not the equity on individual streets.

There all kinds of combinations in which the hand could play out that are just as probable from a statistical point of view as what actually happened. Some of them would probably cause even more of an outcry. Potential boards that are also part of the overall 29% of the times he wins include

Flop A99, Turn A, River A
Flop 9:d 9:h 7:d Turn T:d River J:d or 6:d

etc. etc.

In the same fashion there are reverse scenarios such as:

Flop AA8 Turn 9 River 9

All of these combinations make up the overall possible things that can happen and are completely normal. Both in online and offline poker.

If you think that hands as the above are a reason for poker being 'rigged' or 'constructed' I seriously advise you to read some Psychology articles on the subject, or to take time to study the Equilator in order to better understand the mathematics behind poker.

Best regards
SoyCD

Originally posted by alejandrosh
is poker online rigged?

yes obv.

More and more each day.

Originally posted by SoyCD

Originally posted by tuktukbkk
Here is a classic example of what Im talking about... that just happened and they kick me out in 9th place!

__________________________________________________________
PokerStars Game #31866344933: Tournament #188750914, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIII (600/1200) - 2009/08/20 20:43:12 ET
Table '188750914 8' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: mountrath 1 (33399 in chips)
Seat 2: cyprususa (9167 in chips)
Seat 3: tuktukbkk (8065 in chips)
Seat 4: z 0 0 t s (91393 in chips)
Seat 5: blkchpj (23520 in chips)
Seat 6: slim99slim (27725 in chips)
Seat 7: drx975 (27928 in chips)
Seat 8: PeppeSwe (8658 in chips)
Seat 9: perkele99 (40145 in chips)
mountrath 1: posts the ante 125
cyprususa: posts the ante 125
tuktukbkk : posts the ante 125
z 0 0 t s: posts the ante 125
blkchpj: posts the ante 125
slim99slim: posts the ante 125
drx975: posts the ante 125
PeppeSwe: posts the ante 125
perkele99: posts the ante 125
cyprususa: posts small blind 600
tuktukbkk: posts big blind 1200
HOLE CARDS
Dealt to tuktukbkk [9s 9c]
z 0 0 t s: folds
blkchpj: folds
slim99slim: folds
drx975: folds
PeppeSwe: folds
perkele99: folds
mountrath 1: raises 32074 to 33274 and is all-in
cyprususa: folds
tuktukbkk: calls 6740 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (25334) returned to mountrath 1
FLOP [9d Tc Qs]
TURN [9d Tc Qs] [Js]
RIVER [9d Tc Qs Js] [2h]
SHOW DOWN
tuktukbkk: shows [9s 9c] (three of a kind, Nines)
mountrath 1: shows [8d Ah] (a straight, Eight to Queen)
mountrath 1 collected 17605 from pot
SUMMARY
Total pot 17605 | Rake 0
Board [9d Tc Qs Js 2h]
Seat 1: mountrath 1 (button) showed [8d Ah] and won (17605) with a straight, Eight to Queen
Seat 2: cyprususa (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: tuktukbkk (big blind) showed [9s 9c] and lost with three of a kind, Nines
Seat 4: z 0 0 t s folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: blkchpj folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: slim99slim folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: drx975 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: PeppeSwe folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: perkele99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Hello tuktukbkk,

I really don't see any relevance between this hand and online poker being rigged.

The button pushes A8o which is pretty standard given the antes, blinds, his stack and your stack. I would have done the same thing, no matter if online or live. You find 99 in the big blind and make the call- which is also standard.

After that the action is CLOSED. You are both all-in - so there are no bets from this moment on. You are a favorite with 99 and will win the hand 70.993%% of the time. The other 29.007% of the time he will win. This calculation is based on the 1,712,304 different combinations of flop, turn and river cards that can possibly fall to decide the final outcome. Yet whether you are ahead on the flop and lose to a gutshot on the turn has absolutely no relevance whatsoever - since you were all-in preflop. As such the equity when the money went is also what is relevant - and not the equity on individual streets.

There all kinds of combinations in which the hand could play out that are just as probable from a statistical point of view as what actually happened. Some of them would probably cause even more of an outcry. Potential boards that are also part of the overall 29% of the times he wins include

Flop A99, Turn A, River A
Flop 9:d 9:h 7:d Turn T:d River J:d or 6:d

etc. etc.

In the same fashion there are reverse scenarios such as:

Flop AA8 Turn 9 River 9

All of these combinations make up the overall possible things that can happen and are completely normal. Both in online and offline poker.

If you think that hands as the above are a reason for poker being 'rigged' or 'constructed' I seriously advise you to read some Psychology articles on the subject, or to take time to study the Equilator in order to better understand the mathematics behind poker.

Best regards
SoyCD

SoyCD you are absolutly right in your analysis and thank you for that. Indeed I probably need to relax a little bit more and just take conscious that this is the way the game goes.
But...
Would you play differently and would you fold knowing that there is that change of losing and that if you survive longer you actually get more? Can you fold AA being the short stack when you are in the buble simply because you know there is 1 change of losing? Im not saying always but if you have that feeling that that is the most likely think to happen, would you readapt your game?

SoyCD you are absolutly right in your analysis and thank you for that. Indeed I probably need to relax a little bit more and just take conscious that this is the way the game goes.
But...
Would you play differently and would you fold knowing that there is that change of losing and that if you survive longer you actually get more? Can you fold AA being the short stack when you are in the buble simply because you know there is 1 change of losing? Im not saying always but if you have that feeling that that is the most likely think to happen, would you readapt your game?

-> Hi .. It is all about math in push-fold .. Lets say you have 1500 chips on the button with AA with blinds 300-600 and the cut off shoves all in for 4000 chips .. You play Double or nothing on the bubble (6 players left) and the guy UTG has 100 chips (he will be the BB next hand) .. I think it is absolutely right to fold the hand there, as even if you double up, the chips you won will have no value ..
-> In standard SnGs however I cannot imagine a situation when folding AA preflop could be correct (however I could be wrong)
-> About the "if you have that feeling" - Please FORGET about all "feels" in poker, everyone who says is a "feel guy" is probably a fool, there is no change you can predict the cards that will fall (unless you are some kind of a prophet) .. So yes -> if you feel you will loose all the time, you will be right 19% of the time all in AA vs 99 ..

Just play according to the math, thats it

So you have two accounts on pokerstars?

Originally posted by shane0878
But seriously I do think it's controlled.
Especially in single table SNG.

That would make absolutely no sense from the financial point of view as they don't get any more money from players in a SnG even if they rig the game. So your theory is based solely on your own experience over a small sample size. Moreover, analyzing a few million hands gathered from a platform would suffice to prove that the probabilities play themselves out over large enough sample size. That's how they can spot irregularities, but as already mentioned, successful poker platforms earn more than enough even without rigging the cards.

So tuktuk,u are deep in a tournament,first prize is 17.5k and out of a huge field there are only 11 folks left,that means 2 guys away from FT where prizes are 9th-1k and then this happens

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$100000/$200000 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BU with A:c, A:s.
2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-Bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (28.46956 SB) 8:s, 9:d, T:c (2 players)

Turn: (14.23478 BB) 9:c (2 players)

River: (14.23478 BB) J:c (2 players)

Final Pot: 14.23478 BB.
Results follow:

SB shows a straight, jack high(A:h 7:h).
Hero shows two pairs, aces and nines(A:c A:s).

SB wins with a straight, jack high(A:h 7:h).

So poker is rigged?

..................... yes its rigged. stop playing now.

FFS

Why does this stuff keep coming up... seriously.

Online poker is a business, a very profitable business, not for all the players but for the providers. Now why would they rig it? It makes 0 profits to rig a poker site. Giving "fish" and "edge" does not equal profits!!!!

Why do people still think it does and thats why rooms do it?

Just put yourself into the shoes of a provider... TELL ME WHY WOULD THEY RIG IT???????

Sorry just slightly tipsy and annoyed at ignorance.

Originally posted by AugustusCaesar

SoyCD you are absolutly right in your analysis and thank you for that. Indeed I probably need to relax a little bit more and just take conscious that this is the way the game goes.
But...
Would you play differently and would you fold knowing that there is that change of losing and that if you survive longer you actually get more? Can you fold AA being the short stack when you are in the buble simply because you know there is 1 change of losing? Im not saying always but if you have that feeling that that is the most likely think to happen, would you readapt your game?

-> Hi .. It is all about math in push-fold .. Lets say you have 1500 chips on the button with AA with blinds 300-600 and the cut off shoves all in for 4000 chips .. You play Double or nothing on the bubble (6 players left) and the guy UTG has 100 chips (he will be the BB next hand) .. I think it is absolutely right to fold the hand there, as even if you double up, the chips you won will have no value ..
-> In standard SnGs however I cannot imagine a situation when folding AA preflop could be correct (however I could be wrong)
-> About the "if you have that feeling" - Please FORGET about all "feels" in poker, everyone who says is a "feel guy" is probably a fool, there is no change you can predict the cards that will fall (unless you are some kind of a prophet) .. So yes -> if you feel you will loose all the time, you will be right 19% of the time all in AA vs 99 ..

Just play according to the math, thats it

Maybe this situation? First hand of SNG, you are BB with AA and all people before you move all in

I don`t know if it is rigged or not. I only have one question and I hope some one here can explain how it works. If you sit at a ten seat table and you have your preferred seat, what happens to the other nine and their preferred seating if they have one? Somewhere during a large tournament, ther must be a seating conflict, yet in all the ones I have been in I`m sitting in my chosen seat. Today the player across from me said he could not tell what the person seated next to me was wearing. Strange

Originally posted by ChillyDogg
I don`t know if it is rigged or not. I only have one question and I hope some one here can explain how it works. If you sit at a ten seat table and you have your preferred seat, what happens to the other nine and their preferred seating if they have one? Somewhere during a large tournament, ther must be a seating conflict, yet in all the ones I have been in I`m sitting in my chosen seat. Today the player across from me said he could not tell what the person seated next to me was wearing. Strange

There are complicated algorithms, hard to develop to cope with this seating problem. And that is the reason why rake is payd. Poker rooms has to pay extreme money to those developers of non conflicting seating algorithms ♠_mad:

Originally posted by Alafoe

Originally posted by ChillyDogg
I don`t know if it is rigged or not. I only have one question and I hope some one here can explain how it works. If you sit at a ten seat table and you have your preferred seat, what happens to the other nine and their preferred seating if they have one? Somewhere during a large tournament, ther must be a seating conflict, yet in all the ones I have been in I`m sitting in my chosen seat. Today the player across from me said he could not tell what the person seated next to me was wearing. Strange

There are complicated algorithms, hard to develop to cope with this seating problem. And that is the reason why rake is payd. Poker rooms has to pay extreme money to those developers of non conflicting seating algorithms ♠_mad:

I dont see anything complicated there .. Preffered seating is just what you see on your PC, so the soft just "rotates" the whole table on your screen so you sit where you like .. The relative position of others does not change .. That happens on all the screens, so it is possible for 2 players seeing themselves on the same seat, no problem ..

Originally posted by AugustusCaesar

Originally posted by Alafoe

Originally posted by ChillyDogg
I don`t know if it is rigged or not. I only have one question and I hope some one here can explain how it works. If you sit at a ten seat table and you have your preferred seat, what happens to the other nine and their preferred seating if they have one? Somewhere during a large tournament, ther must be a seating conflict, yet in all the ones I have been in I`m sitting in my chosen seat. Today the player across from me said he could not tell what the person seated next to me was wearing. Strange

There are complicated algorithms, hard to develop to cope with this seating problem. And that is the reason why rake is payd. Poker rooms has to pay extreme money to those developers of non conflicting seating algorithms ♠_mad:

I dont see anything complicated there .. Preffered seating is just what you see on your PC, so the soft just "rotates" the whole table on your screen so you sit where you like .. The relative position of others does not change .. That happens on all the screens, so it is possible for 2 players seeing themselves on the same seat, no problem ..

LOL, yeah of course. No need for an algoritm. Why do people think too hard?