Khiiniau struggling with micro PLO

Yes, sample is very small but I putted it here to follow if there is any development. As I told CO RFI is already improving. 3betting is also under tight supervision. I have analyzed all played sessions immediately and couldn't find any missed 3bet opprtunities. 2/3 hands are 5-handed and 1/3 4-handed, some 3-handed and HU also -> less 3betting opportunities. And you can't 3bet if there is already 5 limpers before you:f_confused:

I don't think SB RFI 36,5 is very low (and its's already rising, 38,4 after that sample). In player pool there is normally at least 10 regulars from LB top 20 8-tabling each + some aggros. So there is practically always at BB some regular or maniac 3betting you crappy SB openings.

But now have to play some time because only 2 LB regulars playing now.

At R&C micros a lot of leaderboard regs overfold from BB versus SB open. I think some of them are instafolding. My default at those lower stakes is to open almost 100% from SB if BB has VPIP < 20.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
At R&C micros a lot of leaderboard regs overfold from BB versus SB open. I think some of them are instafolding. My default at those lower stakes is to open almost 100% from SB if BB has VPIP < 20.

True, but you got to wait with garbage hands hoping everybody folds so you can open and steal the blind. It's kinda dangerous to open this much no? Because then you gotta adjust your defending vs 3bets. E.g t795$ss doesn't open but if it does I would imagine it defends vs a 3bet. But ev gain is probably minuscule.

When we open from SB, if opponent defends with less than 40% we start to make immediate profit. And if he calls, there are flops where we can bet with high frequency as a bluff. So if opponent is fit-or-fold reg who plays top15-20% of hands (all good looking hands) regardless of position, we can open 100% for guaranteed profits. If he 3bets, we can fold. If he calls, we can even fold any flop and still make profit.

The thing is that most 4 tabling regs are micros are not players who have time to think every situation and hand, and make notes + adjust to opponents. If they had the skills for that, they probably would play somewhere else. So most of tight regs are not really adjusting. Of course if you see that a tight player calls you from BB with trashy hand (you get to the showdown), you need to make a note and adjust.

I color all VPIV<20 players, especially if their PFR and 3bet are low too. And as default open a LOT versus them from BB, as it's guaranteed immediate profit. If they call, it's giveup unless I hit the board or get a really good bluffing spot.

It's also important to understand whether we want to play solver strategy or strategy versus the player pool. Two different things.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
At R&C micros a lot of leaderboard regs overfold from BB versus SB open. I think some of them are instafolding. My default at those lower stakes is to open almost 100% from SB if BB has VPIP < 20.

This is normal PLO5, not R&C. Leaderboard regs play quite differently here and they are 8-tabling. Lot of calling and 3betting at BB vs SB.

Stats after 2nd full day. SB and CO RFI and 3bet now higher. Sample below 1500 hands is still very small.

2nd day in row when I haven't played any hands because I'm very confused due to my very big losses from blinds.

Let's look first BB. I have been BB 300 times. If I lost all those it would $15 but I have lost over $20

43 times BB kept free. 16 hands won on flop winning mainly little 5-44c. 3 hands won on turn. 17 hands won @SD and 2 hands on river wo SD, all winnings small, only 1 over 20bb. So got some profit from 81 hands . I checked already all hands won @SD bet sizings and value bets and did'nt see any missed value.

HM3 stats for BB Fold to Steal 58,8% (= 176,4 hands :f_confused:) and BB Defend Steal 41,2% because that makes 100% despite in many hands there we only limpers.

To be continued shortly.

Analyzed 5 biggest losses at BB, total 290bb. Should have folded on flop or turn and saved 200bb.

Is this on GG? How are you tracking if you don't me asking?

Originally posted by BunBun00
Is this on GG? How are you tracking if you don't me asking?

Yes, GG with Olybet skin. Hands can be downloaded from GGpokers PokerCraft and imported to HM, PT etc.

Haven't been playing too much. Preflop stats are quite stable.

Good improvement in BB results, now loosing only below 50bb/100 @BB

SB is big problem and can't find what any key problem why I'm loosing so much. Maybe it's variance because I have lost lot of 60-75% flop all-ins. All-in Adj diff @SB is +20$.
My call steal and resteal @SB look like this:

Maybe Resteal % very low?

Could say those SB stats are completely wrong. You should not call much from SB versus opens and 3bet way more. This is gto approach SB vs BU 3.5bb open in high rake game:

There are few issues in calling from SB:
- Worst position always
- Not closing action so BB can overcall or squeeze. Often BB does call and create multiway pot.
- High SPR postflop which is not good for OOP player.
- Price is not as good as from BB.
- We wont create any fe preflop

When we compare 3bet to above we can see several advantages:
- Potential chance to win preflop
- Make pot more likely HU as its tougher for BB to come along
- Lower SPR if getting action which lowers our positional disadvantage

Now obviously amount of fe versus BU and BB depends lot of players.

PS: This would be gto BB defence versus BU. So you call almost as frequently from SB as BB is calling:

So I would tighten calling lot in your shoes and aim to widen 3bets.

Thanks Ghaleon. That was my own conclusion also. Now have to try to improve playing @SB. With PLO Mastermind can train only SB RFI, I'm getting regularly 70-80% correct. Faising raises have to train in practise. But anyway after analyzing big losses they come mainly from overplaying hand postflop. Flop Cbet is still very big problem, especially @SB 90%

I filtered hands by number of players in hand.
191 hands played HU, +12,15bb/100. This was big surprize because I thought I have lost a lot in HU because villain is practically always some of LB TOP10 players and I have tried to avoid playing HU with them. Maybe I should play more HU againts those 8-tabling regs ? They probaly fold to openings and Cbets too much because don't have enough time to think.

My last plaeyd 24h was quite nice:

Old finnish saying goes "you can't be too tight from SB in PLO".

What comes to 3betting and solver strategy, I am not sure if solver approach is the best one. The higher the rake, the higher 3bet freq. solver has. I have seen sims where solver virtually plays 3bet-or-fold strategy when the rake goes really high (like Ghaleon's post). But solver assumes that opponents play perfectly, with perfect ranges. In reality hero should have decent/good postflop edge, so the EV of calls goes up. And in 3bet game hero can't use his postflop edge, as hands often play themselves. For those reasons I am convinced that one can have good winrate from SB without 3betting as much as solver does. Before solvers most players aimed more or less towards 10/10 from SB (call/3bet). I think solver's 88% fold is too much at low stakes where hero has postflop edge. And what comes to the hands that are in the bottom half of solver 3betting range, the EV is profitable and good with a call also. Whether it's better or worse with 3bet, we never get a definitive answer to that. Calling reduces variance, and sometimes might even give better EV than 3betting (especially when opponent is cbetting too wide on the flop).

Your stats have SB RFI included, that's why VPIP is so high. You should filter when facing a raise preflop, and then see what the stats look like. If VPIP is over 20, then the first thing imo is to get that below 20.

Your stats have SB RFI included, that's why VPIP is so high. You should filter when facing a raise preflop, and then see what the stats look like. If VPIP is over 20, then the first thing imo is to get that below 20.

These are SB stats against steal.

These are SB stats facing raise from any position. So I have to try to push that VPIP 26,2 down

i would like flat from sb more, in omaha you have 4 cards, so it is good chance to hit a pair.

VPIP down, 3bet up. Your current range is either VERY AAxx heavy or you are not 3betting most of your Aces.

Holdem is so sick. Nice 4-way All-in with 77 against AA, QQ and KQ:f_drink:
PokerStars Powerpath step 2 tournament
PokerStars - 350/700 Ante 70 NL (8 max) - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

UTG+1: 9,930 (14.2 bb)
Hero (MP): 30,672 (43.8 bb)
MP+1: 9,740 (13.9 bb)
CO: 30,254 (43.2 bb)
BTN: 34,928 (49.9 bb)
SB: 29,530 (42.2 bb)
BB: 44,304 (63.3 bb)
UTG: 14,578 (20.8 bb)

8 players post ante of 70, SB posts 350, BB posts 700

Pre Flop: (pot: 1,610) Hero has 7♥: 7♣:
2 folds, folds, folds, folds, fold, folds, fold

Flop: (100,758, 4 players) 6♦: 4♥: 3♠:

Turn: (100,758, 4 players) K♣:

River: (100,758, 4 players) 5♠:

Results: 100,758 pot
Final Board: 6♦: 4♥: 3♠: K♣: 5♠:

Hero shows 7♥: 7♣:: (Straight, Seven High)
Main Pot: [39,940]: (Pre 19%, Flop 26%, Turn 15%)
Side Pot #1: [59,370]: (Pre 21%, Flop 26%, Turn 15%)
Side Pot #2: [1,448]: (Pre 63%, Flop 84%, Turn 15%)

CO shows Q♦: K♥:: (One Pair, Kings)
Main Pot: [39,940]: (Pre 8%, Flop 1%, Turn 5%)
Side Pot #1: [59,370]: (Pre 9%, Flop 1%, Turn 8%)
Side Pot #2: [1,448]: (Pre 37%, Flop 16%, Turn 85%)

SB shows A♠: A♥:: (One Pair, Aces)
Main Pot: [39,940]: (Pre 65%, Flop 69%, Turn 78%)
Side Pot #1: [59,370]: (Pre 70%, Flop 73%, Turn 78%)

MP+1 shows Q♥: Q♠:: (One Pair, Queens)
Main Pot: [39,940]: (Pre 9%, Flop 4%, Turn 3%)

Hero wins 100,758

Originally posted by Kyyberi
VPIP down, 3bet up. Your current range is either VERY AAxx heavy or you are not 3betting most of your Aces.

Only 73% 3bet are AA. I 3bet with AA maybe 99%. Only some times I have only called from blinds with crappy RB aces to multiway pot. I have had only 71 times pocket aces, that's below 3%:f_confused:

AA is 2.57% of hands in plo

Overall 73%, but from SB it seems to be most of the range.