PLO50 AQ76ts awkward flop spot with nuts

So as default this would be very borderline hand for me to defend and would not mind folding with SB call as well. But in this case both opponents looks recreational and BU is minraising so pre call is mandatory imo.

+1

Preflop call vs minraise is fine with appearingly recreationals involved, I'd also be fine with folding as a default.

Thirdly kind of interestingly I think folding is not totally out of question.

♠_o:

We would not be pushing equity against a strong range of "high-equity vs nuts hands" that one of them can easily have like set+draw or combodraws, so calling makes sense to me, if they are loose aggressive I prefer to reshove. I think folding is too timid once we have noticed at least one of them is loose/bad - otherwise we would have folded preflop.

We don't have the exact information that such a range described above is already definable, the bet can be wide and the check-raise is questionable if villain is aggressive, fish know low textures are hard to hit so they loosen up here aswell. When the turn is a blank, we have position on the check-raiser, this means he would have to finally reveal his real handstrength whereas when he checks we can deny equity against the BTN (if he had overflatted otf).

This is pure fold vs 2. Vs 1 u call the raise and c/r turn. Vs 2 some % of the time u will be way behind. Every 6/7/T/J/Q take away our nuts, every Club is bad and also pairing the board. Its interesting what we do if we have the fd but a low one and I think its still a fold vs 2.

Yeah the main issue in this sort of spot is that there is fairly high possibility someone else has nut straight as well. That mean we only draw to half of the pot. So in game we ended three way allin on flop and situation was roughly this:

BU had that straight and SB was flipping with his combo draw for whole pot. Now we can think of some other scenario like:

So in this case I weakened SB draw to fd and gs. BU has only top two with bdfd. We have roughly breakeven spot. Now there are some cases where we are lucky in 3way allin and have something like this:

Plus of course BU will fold some amount of time and we get into HU. So versus two recreationals with read they might overplay stuff I think its ok to continue but more solid our opponents are the bigger the possibility of one of these worst case scenarios are. E.g.:

Just something to concider in general with dry straight on this sort of very dynamic flop. In fact I think BU probably should theory wise check behind on flop with dry straight.

Very interesting to see those equities. I checked turn equity distributions for hero and I admit, I've been wrong. We can't get better than 2:1 ott so we can't call on implieds with 3.5:1 otf, since one player will usually have the nustraight basically always, we are not going to perform well. Solver as BB facing B-XR also folds everything worse than straight+fd or top-set+draw/blocker.

Just something to concider in general with dry straight on this sort of very dynamic flop. In fact I think BU probably should theory wise check behind on flop with dry straight.

Occasionally to be balanced yes, but not all. Bare nutstraight should still c-bet with a high frequency when having a FD-Blocker, without it's a ~50-50 mix. With general low flop bluff-checkraising and turn probing tendencies on my tables I would not like checking too many naked nutstraights otf as BTN, but it's fine to check-back sometimes against capable regulars.

Solvers' SB Flat&XR is very tight, so I guess depending on BTN's cbet freq 3way ip vs a non-nit SB who often flats too much when also having a more loose XR in this spot it can become more close. But that's more rare I guess as we'd need a lag-type player with a lack of positional awareness.

Just to point out it's not just about balance point of view but also dry straight is more of a mediocre hand strength combo. But in game it's kind of easy to think it's automatic bet being current nuts. But it won't be nuts that often on river anymore. It can also lead to some nice value later streets if opponent thinks we never have straight after flop check.

Of course this is also kinda specific on these kind of "two bottom gap" straight flops. If flop is 975 or especially 965 type it will strengthen straight a lot.

Originally posted by ghaleon
Just to point out it's not just about balance point of view but also dry straight is more of a mediocre hand strength combo. But in game it's kind of easy to think it's automatic bet being current nuts.

Yes it was interesting for me to see. Would not have thought in blind battle we are tightening up this much already on the flop. SB coming along and being aggressive really throws heros' continuation overboard.

But it won't be nuts that often on river anymore. It can also lead to some nice value later streets if opponent thinks we never have straight after flop check.

It can but usually it does not. Many regs play some sort of fit-fold strategy in one way or another that aims for equity realization (accordingly you see less aggressive moves like bluff probes and check-raises and a lack of loosening up in terms of handstrengths on later streets). So it'd still be hard to get value more than 2 bets but yes if villain is tight enough, this could serve as an actual value core range balancing our other delayed bets so we still surpress the double-call lines since villain will have more tough decisions with hands that can call 2 streets (and vice versa allows us bluffing even more).

That's a common misunderstanding of balancing in PLO, it's not the same as pot-control. It's distributing the right amount of hand categories over possible future shifts and runouts. And there is no need to balance as long nobody stands up against our aggression, and abc-regs often don't. In general to exploit passive/tight tendencies we are supposed to bet more (and for this naked straight is the best sort of made hand we can add to our value-range - in order to "bluff" cbet more). Most situations where solver cbets 50% hero probably should be cbetting something around 70%. Multiway this is even more extreme.

In terms of equities you are right, we don't really push equity if villains continue tight, but with wide ranges checking signals weakness and we already benefit when both players fold (naked nutstraight is obv. still vulnerable to all sorts of draws). The less equity we have, the more we even benefit actually. They won't continue 100% of their capped 30% and 5% pre ranges but fold a lot of "missed" combos that would still have equity against us. Also we do not benefit that much of taking the freecard, beside 2 streets with possible texture shifts villain continue the same types of hands that retain decent equity against the bare nutstraight.

I think I have mentioned it already, don't strictly think about hands in terms of value or bluff before the river. (Implied) value and equity denial do not contradict each other.