AA 350bb deep 4bet pot

Originally posted by 1d4BestByTest
We are 350bb deep. Do I 4bet bigger because otherwise pairs get to good implied odds?

For me, yes — but then I am rarely this deep.

My standard 4Bet is 5x the last bet — so 45 here, and I'm usually only 4Betting if I'm going to call any 5Bet.

Is this a ring game with antes? If so, then your open raise needs to be bigger, because with antes BB gets such extremely good odds to call.

I'd like to know what the experts think though.

Also, if you are getting out of your comfort zone this deep, consider leaving and joining another table.

I never really raise bigger. But that could indeed be an adjustment to tighten my EP/MP ranges a little bit and open bigger. I am still feeling out. Since I basically have no reference. I don't know if I have encountered one player that I would label reg(I assume they leave these stakes very fast)

I think 200bb deep+ against certain players I certainly want to have a 4bet/bluff range. So then 5x seems extreme(but I agree I need to make it at least 3.5x/4x). It is rare that I bluff here, but my value range is also so small. It was my first hand in a similar spot. So I am not even sure I want to 4bet KK here since I don't really want to stack off. It could be that I 4bet/f some AK, but these spots are new for me that I am not sure what I would do.

Let's say I go 4xx. Does that change anything how the hand plays out(of course, assuming % of pot betsizes remain same.

Leaving the table in certain spots could be in short term indeed +EV, but in longterm I need to get comfortable in these spots since you leave to much EV on the table to not play as deep as possible against fish. So, better on these stakes were the money means nothing for me, than when I hopefully move up in the future. For example, the sb was a very bad fish. Not being as deep as possible against them is just the -EV play.

Originally posted by 1d4BestByTest
I think 200bb deep+ against certain players I certainly want to have a 4bet/bluff range. So then 5x seems extreme(but I agree I need to make it at least 3.5x/4x). It is rare that I bluff here, but my value range is also so small. It was my first hand in a similar spot. So I am not even sure I want to 4bet KK here since I don't really want to stack off. It could be that I 4bet/f some AK, but these spots are new for me that I am not sure what I would do.

At higher stakes maybe.
4Bet bluffing at low stakes might be worth while if you play the same people a lot. The benefit to bluffing is getting caught at it.

From the collected sayings of Vorpal Swordsman:
If they never see you bluff, you'll never need to.

By that I mean if you always show up with the best hand — or at least a very strong hand, players will assume that those are all you play. So if you ever *do* bluff, you get believed more. The downside is that your premium hands don't get paid off as much.

But we are 'bluffing' a lot because of the antes with our open raises, or at least some villains will perceive it like that on small samples. Any 4bet protects the huge bottom part of your range. This, of course, is way less relevant for EP raises, but not in the perception of villains. So even an unseen 4bet will protect our late positions steals.

I don't have a huge sample of it yet. I have been consistently been doing this with the top of my folding range to 3bets in spots where it made sense. Results are great, but the sample is minimal(10hands). So way to early to make any conclusion. I will for sure keep this in my arsenal for now. Will follow up on how this evolves.

I would go for a higher 4bet sizing as well with in mind villain has position on you. 30bb or so seems fine. 5x is a bit to much, but I don't play so deep either. I expect if you 4bet 5x it's always for value and 4x seems more than enough.