[Closed] 1/2 SH BB-Protection

Iam not sure about blind defense either, but to no1 I think youshould fold the flop, cause there is no point in drawing at that point.
But preflop you are getting 3-1 odds, so calling with this hand should be correct. you will catch a pair or a good draw more than 1 in 4 times, soyou do not need to play without hitting the flop at all.

1. I guess, this is a fold or raise situation on the flop. Here is fold better, imo.

2. Call in the BB was just nice. No reraise, with A5o.

3. hmm... I would not have overcalled preflop.

2) and 3) are alright, but in 1) you should have folded the flop, there is no point in calling this.

edit: in 2) call flop/raise turn would be good in this situation but when villain checked you made a right move to bet.

1) clear fold flop

1) this depends here. call flop, fold turn is only reasonalbe if villain is capabale to give up, if he is called on the flop, so the call on the flop is a kind of "bluffcall". the turn is a raise here, because on overcard comes, that can scare villain und make him fold. but this depends on reads.

2) although his Attempt to steal is 31%, ATS is an average from the stealpositions. an ATS 31% player has 1st in from the SB a higher range up to 50%. any ace is a CLEAR reraise vs this kind of player. rest fine

3) fold Q5s 6:1. maybe I'm tight vs non steal ranges but Q5s is bad to play in this spot. with one more caller U can call any 2 suited.

Original von OnkelHotte
2) although his Attempt to steal is 31%, ATS is an average from the stealpositions. an ATS 31% player has 1st in from the SB a higher range up to 50%. any ace is a CLEAR reraise vs this kind of player. rest fine

How do you know that? Is there a spreadsheet out for these kinds of things - I mean, how does the ATS Range change from different positions? Are there any calculations on that?

Original von Wiseguy

Original von OnkelHotte
2) although his Attempt to steal is 31%, ATS is an average from the stealpositions. an ATS 31% player has 1st in from the SB a higher range up to 50%. any ace is a CLEAR reraise vs this kind of player. rest fine

How do you know that? Is there a spreadsheet out for these kinds of things - I mean, how does the ATS Range change from different positions? Are there any calculations on that?

I think you steal more hands from SB than from BU or CO, that's a fact but I don't know if I can agree with reraising any ace here.

I know that the stealrange is higher from the SB, but I'm interested in _how much_ higher.

Original von eplc

I think you steal more hands from SB than from BU or CO, that's a fact but I don't know if I can agree with reraising any ace here.

you should agree!;) vs a stealraiser with ps.de stealing standards, otherwise you're wasting value. run pokerstove with A5o vs a 50% range. additionally you have the initiative and position

@wisey: there are of course calculations bout that. have a look in korns openraising chart for advanved players in his preflop article.

a ps.de player raises ca 35% of his hands 1st in from the button an approximately 50% from the SB.

To quote Korn: "ORC liefert:

MP2 = 13%
MP3 = 17%
CO = 25%
BU = 38%

Soweit ich weiss (aber das wisst ihr vielleicht besser) liefert der ORC bei 6 max ca. einen PFR von 17% (das liegt nat�rlich auch an SB vs BB)

Als k�nnte man grob bei einem open raise folgendes sagen (f�r 6max)

MP2 ~ 0.75 * PFR
MP3 ~ PFR
CO ~ 1.5 * PFR
BU ~ 2 PFR"

Add the SB Value (ORC) of 62% and you'll get something like 3,6 * PFR. That is, of course, only a rough theory. I would use that as a very very very rough rule of thumb and combine it with my readings, the playability of some hands listed and so on. It all depends on the opponent.

3 * PFR sounds realistic to meh.

Just to get this right: you're taking the same multiplicators (dunno if it's the right word for the german "Koeffizienten") for Attend to steal as for PFR depending on the seat? Is it the same thing? I guess there is no difference...

If there is: what is the difference between ATS and PFR?

Original von OnkelHotte

Original von eplc

I think you steal more hands from SB than from BU or CO, that's a fact but I don't know if I can agree with reraising any ace here.

you should agree!;) vs a stealraiser with ps.de stealing standards, otherwise you're wasting value. run pokerstove with A5o vs a 50% range. additionally you have the initiative and position

And there is another problem. Ps.de members have by far the highes PFR of all TAGs I'm playing against. That means we're raising with hands other TAGs consider to be junk. There are only a few opponents who have higher PFRs than us and those are usually maniacs.
By 3-betting with weak Aces in the BB ageinst a raise from SB we are assuming other players have our low raising standards and that might be wrong...

Thoughts?

Original von Wiseguy

Original von OnkelHotte

Original von eplc

I think you steal more hands from SB than from BU or CO, that's a fact but I don't know if I can agree with reraising any ace here.

you should agree!;) vs a stealraiser with ps.de stealing standards, otherwise you're wasting value. run pokerstove with A5o vs a 50% range. additionally you have the initiative and position

And there is another problem. Ps.de members have by far the highes PFR of all TAGs I'm playing against. That means we're raising with hands other TAGs consider to be junk. There are only a few opponents who have higher PFRs than us and those are usually maniacs.
By 3-betting with weak Aces in the BB ageinst a raise from SB we are assuming other players have our low raising standards and that might be wrong...

Thoughts?

1. steal = 1st in raise from CO or later (w/o guarantee)

2. I play ~25/21 in 5/10 and 10/20 games or higher. these values are such high due to the fact that many hands are played EXTREM short from 2-4 players. I havent seen yet that our PFR is higher than that of other classical TAGs. The only thing that is higher in most cases is the postflop af of >3,5

3. every TAG or LAG raises at least 50% of his hands 1st in from the SB. some guys tend to raise nearly any2 1st in from the SB.

I rcommend to 3 bet any ace vs ATS of about 30 or higher

If you fill in the ORC in Pokerstove you have a 62% raising range from the SB.

Again one question to 1):
If I am calling a raise in the BB following the 70% equity rule, I am calling to be often enough in front to make the call profitable.
But as I fold very often to the continuation-bet, if I dont hit, I am often folding a hand even if I am in front. Should I therefore not only call steals assuming an equity rule which is profitalbe for the times I hit the flop? Sure, this would be way too passive, but it expresses the problem which I have with the 70% rule. Thoughts?

To avoid this "fold everytime ui against the continuation bet" I like Hotte's "bluffcall"-flop raise turn line.