Seriously, I'm sick of them ruining our games. You finally find a good fish but you can't get to him profitably because there's a shorty to his left, and a shorty to his right. FFFFUUUUU-
Would be nice to see those new changes that fulltilt we're considering.
Why all the hatred towards shortstacks? Most of them are breaking even or losing players, adjust to them... and if you don't like playing shorties, go to the deep tables.
Originally posted by SheepMoose
Seriously, I'm sick of them ruining our games. You finally find a good fish but you can't get to him profitably because there's a shorty to his left, and a shorty to his right. FFFFUUUUU-Would be nice to see those new changes that fulltilt we're considering.
+100. It's not the same as full-ring, two shortstacks joining = table ruined unless the other two players are huge fish.
Not saying they don't have a right to play or whatever, but this is usually what happens.
1) You join a good table.
2) Two players are replaced by short stacks
3) Shortstacks keep going all in
4) The fish leave
5) You leave
6) You join a good table
7) Repeat
meh, it's just frustrating.
How is SSS profitable on SH tables? I think those who play SSS against 5 others are the fish, let alone sitting in a 6max table with a SSS already on it... I might be wrong, but on the lower limits the ones with 20-30BB are usually playing with scared money, that is why they play short.
Originally posted by Frakkk
How is SSS profitable on SH tables? I think those who play SSS against 5 others are the fish, let alone sitting in a 6max table with a SSS already on it... I might be wrong, but on the lower limits the ones with 20-30BB are usually playing with scared money, that is why they play short.
+1.
The only problem I see with shorties is that you never get to play turn and river. But that doesn't mean it's not profitable... just less fun.
On the NL25 tables I see a ton of SS most are pretty bad but you do see some players who are actually playing with some strategy. there are two kinds I seem to run into, 1: the tight shorty who is just looking to resteal against your open raises, 2: the ones who are loose & stealing a wide range for 2.5bb and fold alot to reraises though they do have a hand once in a while or atleast willing to gamble to show they're not always folding.
Originally posted by whateverdude
SS=/=SSS
+1
SSers at 6-hands are guaranteed profit. For starters, in those tables the BSS is the only viable strategy to use. Second, the SS themselves will have a very narrow hand range, which means steals and re-steals, and if they do go all-in it's not very hard to guess what they have.
SS at a shorthanded table is a sure way to lose your BR.
Actually, SSS might work on SH tables as long as you adapt it somehow. There's a short stacker regular on FTP that I checked on pokertableratings and he seems to be winning... barely... 0.57/100 hands on a 180k hands sample.
But even then it's probably one of the few who manage to make a marginal profit. And he's breaking even against me so far, so it really doesn't bother me when he sits down to play.
Originally posted by whateverdude
SS=/=SSS
Sorry, I did mean SS'ers.
But honestly, go to fulltilt and have a look at NL100 - NL600.
Somebody over at 2p2 found that NL100/NL200 had around 35% ss'ers on the shorthanded tables which is completely stupid.
The problem isn't only SS'ers but the bad etiquette they give online poker as well.
SS'ers tend to hit'n'run/rathole ALL the time.
(To those that don't know the term rathole/ratholing:
Ratholing means to leave a game and then come back into the game with a smaller stack then with which you left. For example, suppose you buy into a game for $20. You go on a winning streak and increase your stack to $100. Now, you feel uncomfortable playing with this much money, so you leave the game, pocket $80, and re-enter the game with only $20. This would be a case of ratholing. Ratholing is poor poker etiquette, and most poker rooms prohibit it.
) and it just makes things more painful for BSS players. A lot of the BSS players always want to find a chance to get their money back one way or another, and it's nearly impossible to do from these shortstackers when all they do is fill up the tables, hit'n'run, rathole, rinse and repeat.
/rant.
[edited by kingdippy2008; posting of another affiliate site]
Sorry but link provided was another affiliate site with non-pokerstrategy bonus codes and this is against the Board Rules (updated 15th May 2009). Rule number 3
As it was a helpful topic i copied the text and put it in a quote for you.
SS quite often looks like scared money to me. I remember my first days of poker at a local ZA site. I deposited like 3BI for a middle limit and played with a small stack, just cause I didn't wanna loose everything. Felt kinda like going to play blackjack/roulette/other game with only a small amount. Though I had no idea what I was doing. 
Now, not as SS are like that, and certainly very few of them actually play something resembling correct SSS. But still, I can't see alot of motivation for SS besides playing scared, or 'fun gambling' by going allin with hands that are too weak.
@SheepMoose: I play NL100 SH at FTP and it's true, there are a lot of short stackers. But saying they hit-n-run and rathole ALL the time is a little bit exagerated.
The only guys I see hit-n-running are players that are actually trying to use some sort of strategy to play, and IMO most of them don't play winning poker or are barely winning. The other shorties, as Ejeckt pointed out, are just afraid, they sit down at the table, don't really know what they are doing, they sometimes double up, stay at the table, sometimes lose everything, rebuy again for the minimum... well, no need to say it's profitable to play against these guys.
As for ratholing, it's impossible to do so... unless the guy leaves the table and sits down at another table, but that would be hit-n-running.
Well, anyway, if you dislike playing against shorties, why don't you play on the deep tables?
Most sites have a 30 minute window for rat-holing, FTP & PP atleast since those are the ones I played at.
Originally posted by Kimber88
Play 50bb min or deep tables --> problem solved
Only 10% of FTP's tables are deep. There's not much people can do over at FTP to avoid shortstacks apart from sitting at the deep tables, but there's not enough to cater for everyone.
Sorry to the mods for the link, thanks for fixing it up and adding the text in a quote!
ipoker has something like 120 mins window to prevent ratholing. I don't see it as a terrible thing, I tend to do it myself from time to time. If I go up from 20$ to 40 - 60$ at NL20 table, I dont want to risk it all again in some weird KK vs AA or set over set situation. No one is offended when, having lost all my stack, I reach into the pocket for some more; so neither they should be when I put a portion of my winnings there for future use.
As for shortstackers, I don't like them much too, still I believe I should beat any type of player at my limit if I want to progress. Playing only fishy bigstacks looks to me as if some football team would refuse to play a match because its raining outside and their opponents wear red shirts. If they push allin pf, just do the math, check what is your winning % against say top 10 - 20% hands, and act on that.
Originally posted by SheepMoose
Only 10% of FTP's tables are deep.
It seems quite enough for me... how many tables do you play!?
If you are a boku-ish player or something, trying playing FTP and Stars deep tables at once... there should be quite a few tables available. I don't know other rooms that offer deep tables.
Originally posted by marvinas
As for shortstackers, I don't like them much too, still I believe I should beat any type of player at my limit if I want to progress.
+1
Originally posted by marvinas
ipoker has something like 120 mins window to prevent ratholing. I don't see it as a terrible thing, I tend to do it myself from time to time.
Is this basically where they are not allowed to sit back down at the table again with their $1 for a certain amount before they can try to shove Allin with their $1 again lol.
