[Closed] SNG dissection

Is this seriously going to be a video every few days, I still havnt finnished going over the last one

Originally posted by lennonac
Is this seriously going to be a video every few days, I still havnt finnished going over the last one

Yup... part 2 is already complete ♦ and we have another HH lined up which I am really looking forward to...

Frozenrope thanks for your comments... I am looking forward to hearing what others think about the T7o hand, but more importantly the why's... We are waiting for more ideas before releasing part 2: the uber-bubble video

YAY GUYS!!!

can i firstly say I LOVE ALL 3 of you chatting and commenting! it makes the video very exciting and fun to watch!

I will comment on the T7o hand:

T7o bubble – I like the fold. There is high likelihood of the SB pushing very wide into the BB and seeing as the BB is obviously a fishy loose station he might also call the SB push very wide. And even if that doesn’t happen we still have an equal SS and some FE on the next hand, especially if the big stack is folding first in. so I like the fold here but its close for me with a tight image.

the 16s look super soft on stars haha.

can i just also note that this blog is a fantastic opportunity for us silver/bronze level ps.com’ers to see some high buy-in analysis.

Thank you guys for ur wise words! cant wait for part 2!

for shoving:

we're pushing into our direct opponents who risk their whole tourney on the bubble if they call and lose

we are first in and create a lot of fold equity

BB wouldn't call with less then AQ/99 IMO

we've been fairly tight so far so more FE

for folding:

we push with bigstack next to act who can call with any PP or A hi hand maybe KQ, KJ.

there's 3 more to act after us, and the BB should know we would push low PP's, SC's, Ax QT+ etc...

ICM probably says fold, but doesn't take into account the blinds or other action this hand. (maybe someone else will bust out)

---

It's close but I think a shove is possible based on our image, FE, and the fact that blinds are coming. At first I thought easy fold, but now I think marginal shove.

Awesome! thanks a lot for reviewing my video, I'm gonna watch it now and post some feedback later

Ok watched it: first off I'd like to say: nice video!

There are not a lot of interesting spots, for me the most interesting are the A7o, Q5s and the 38o in BB.

I think A70 is a standard hand for the wizard. I folded it buth tbh it's close, I think I'll always shove A8 and sometimes this hand aswell.

The Q5s hand from is an interesting spot, buth imo it's too marginal for a table without any regulars. I do think a shove here is +$EV looking back, but didn't have those reads on the openlimper during my play.
I was surprised you guys used to wizard on this hand, because I'm never using is for limper situations. You cant model the range (you always include AA, KK, ..).

I think the T7o (last hand) is a shove, I'm not even considering reads or my image, shoving just looks like best option by far on a 16$ sng vs randoms. I should have a tight image, and villains aren't superloose either, so that makes it even more a shove.

Then again: we know the bigstack is not superaggro enough, and the player to our right isn't super aggro either. There is a chance we're getting a walk on our next BB. It's not superlikely though, and if we don't we're gonna have to be shoving superloose into the bigstack which sucks aswell.

So definatly a shove, although I think I folded it ingame.

Overall the video was short but I liked it a lot. I have to apologise for the lack of interesting hands, but the best is yet to come. Part II brings small stacks, high blinds and alot of crying.

when's part 2 coming guys!! haha

Hi,

don't apologize for anything! The HH is great, especially part 2.

5:45 A :heart:7 is a clear fold for me. I really don't want to shove 13BB in a marginal spot like this. I would also openfold A9o without hesitation. You gain 150 Chips to your 1315. Even if the Wizard might tell you that this is +EV (he doesn't!), your edge is not big enough.
I'll try to explain:
your preflop-equity: 0.1017 = ~10.2%
your equity, when everyone folds to your push: 0.1119 = ~11.2%

In my opinion it's not worth risking your tourney for 1% equity in a marginal spot -> fold.

11:45: Q :spade:4 I agree that this is very aggressive and marginal. But as I said "But it's better to push!"
You can exclude AA, KK, ... but that would make the push even more +EV. So we decided to let those hands included to get the widest calling-range. Some people (especially this guy) still limp AA, KK, ... hands.

17:00 3 :heart:8 Postflop the SB doesn't want the pot, so you should attack it. Preflop the check is good for sure, but imo the shove has a lot of equity because you'll get more walks in the rest of the tourney.

T :diamond:7 : any opinion on that hand is good! Don't get intimidated by other posts. We will publish part 2 only after a solid discussion!

Flows

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
when's part 2 coming guys!! haha

There are some problems with the sound-files that have to be fixed!
I already spent a couple of hours on this but it's not working the way it should...

In addition to that: 4 comments on T7o is simply not enough, because we really want you to think on your own about this hand because it increases the understanding of ICM.

Re Video #1. Really informative.

I definitely like the shove with AT vs utg limper earlier.

My only other comment is on the first couple of hands after bubble. Maybe I misunderstood, but it seemed like you were advising against pushing K2o vs the BB because you said once through the bubble people loosen up and start to gamble and so he might call us. (36'57)

But then, a couple of hands later (38'32), you seem to say we can consider pushing T2o from BU, "because the most important thing is winning the tournament"

It's true that there is an extra $250 in the pot from the SB, but BB still has us covered and if we get called our equity is worse than with K2o presumably?

the point here is that it is the first hand itm. if it was the second and there was a SB i would push. The game changes when the bubble breaks and players are happy about getting ITM.

Hey, I just uploaded the uber-bubble-video!

the 107o hand is a clear push for me. You still got enough fold equity through that you have been tight so far and you're pushing utg and also the hand doesn't play that bad against the calling range

Great 2nd half of a video, its clear to me I need work on the bubble area. I think this was an excellent video, which is as good as any of the available coaching videos. Hats off to viewer88 for his play in this video although the results aren't what you would have liked it shows great character sending in this video no wonder yours was picked. Fantastic work by the Dissection crew, you really give me the insight needed when faced with those marginal spots that need to be pushed. I like NickParkes saying when in doubt PUSH I have put that on a sticky and put it on my monitor to remind me. Sorry I'm not going to comment on the hands on this half as I need to watch it again for the full respect it deserves.

im going to watch it again and take notes on specific hands just wanted to say great job guys! i really enjoyed your commentary, Atoks is scared of the 16s? haha

sickest bubble ever!

Nice job guys I liked the latest part II a lot. looking forward to the next one.

$16's on pokerstars look so weak when you watch closely ♠_cool:. Maybe we should only be one or two-tabling?

p.s. never seen the blinds go that high in a STT before the bubble before. Usually 200/400 you are ITM.

Great Blog guys, and great work.

As per the bubble video, good game Viewer and good review the three of you.

Let this be a solid lesson that no matter what limit you are playing, hoping for the others to bust out will
more often than not see you out in 4th. I think that is the most consistant and best message/theme
that came from this video. Well 2... If you don't do the work someone else will for you....

I can count many times when it was even by someone else just being a maniac and shoving or raising
all kinds of hands, they end up cleaning up most of the chips in crucial stages of SNGS, leaving you
hoping not to be 4th and making it harder to even be first in to get to shove never mind being too tight.

And also the second do not be too tight... even when you see others with short stacks and the blinds
are getting insanely high.... It is only a matter of an orbit or 2 before you go from ok to super shorty......

and all it takes is one of the other bad playing super shorties to double up by fluke, and out you go.

Be aggressive, abuse the bubble, and take advantage of the weaker big stacks who think they will
just fold their way into the money once they triple up etc with 5 or 4 people left. Do not be afraid of
pusing into people, because when you do win the race, you are not only in a safer position to
survive the blinds, you have much more potential to take first place when you have a strong enough
stack to abuse the hell out of the bubble and just repeatedly take the blinds.

The first places you take down by shoving according to ICM (with adjustments) on the bubble, more than
make up for the times you get called by worse (or better) hands, and go out.

Really nice video, I'm gonna watch it again tomorow for it to really sink in. I'm obviously way tight, and I should really really pay more attention to my tables.

The two hands were SB completed, do you guys push those vs a complete random aswell (without knowing he completed before?). I'm always afraid of some douchebag trapping me here, it has to be a leak. What is your pushrange vs complete unknown?

I think I'm too tight in spots where I don't expect to have a lot of FE. Like pushing into bigstacks, or pushing into other smallstacked players, sometimes it's just better to gambol and get your chips in there.

There are some interesting hands I wonna discus a little bit more.

Like this hand:
4 players
[1] arthiam (2695)
[But] viewer88 (1925)
[SB] corrie19 (7315)
[BB] joachimpowa (1565)

viewer88 A♥ 5♣ Initial Pot: 2100

arthiam folds
viewer88 folds

I prefered waiting for a spot to shove into the shortstacks so I folded. I wiz'd the hand and it becomes -$EV when BB calls more then 40%, so it should have definatly been an instashove because IMO it's even ok to make a slightly -$EV shove here.
T9o hand from BB is the same situation ofcourse, waiting for joachimpowa to bust is just a bad idea since I have FE here.

I think I've been freaked out too much by the terrible calls I've seen on 16's $, also when I'm playing vs unknowns I give them a looser callrange then the ranges you guys put in the wizard. The random donkeys on 16$'s kill each other so often that I sometimes pass up on smaller edges, but my tight bubblegame here is obviously terri-bad

This video has a pretty grim view of the bubble though, it's usualy a lot shorter on 16$s (and I finish in top 3 for like 75-80% )

Anyway I made some freakishly bad plays that sng, so I'm superglad you guys reviewed it because it's kind of an eye-opener

Here's a hand where I don't really agree with you guys:

4 players
[1] joachimpowa (3250)
[But] arthiam (520)
[SB] viewer88 (1595)
[BB] corrie19 (8135)

viewer88 K♠ Q♦ Initial Pot: 1400

joachimpowa folds
arthiam is All in
viewer88 is All in
corrie19 calls 745

I think it's a standard shove because you have BU covered so hard. I've fed it to the wizard and this is +$EV even in the extreme model where BU only shoves KK+ AKs and BB overcalls 100%.

I've set there ranges at 7% shove for the shortstack and 81% call from bigstack and this shove had +2.62 diff% which is nice.

So overall I think I sucked pretty hard on bubble missing a lot of shoves left and right. Thanks a lot for reviewing my game, I'm really learning a lot from this and I hope other players learn something from it aswell (I'm sure they do )

I'll watch the video again tomorow and maybe post some more hand, I'm definatly waiting to see more video's from you guys

Just a quick reply to u Viewer88:

- A5o hand from SB into BB: Insta push in that spot. U beat a lot of his range and u stand to make a lot of chips in that spot. Obviously he'll call with a pretty wide range but that only gives u a few extra chips in the long run. The fact that u can push into Arthiam next hand is not so relevant in this spot.

-86o U pretty much told everything about it urself. Unless u got a really solid read that this player will call u with more than 40% of his range most of the time u should push in that spot.

-KQo hand might seem like a good spot to push and it is entirely possible for the SnGW to give u +EV in it. However u have to consider two facts:
1.) The Bigstack BB will play his hand against the shorty automatically because the big blind is bigger than the shorties push
2.) If u push behind the shorty as well that only gives the Bigstack the possibility to call with a wider range
In light of these considerations it is difficult to advocate for a push in that spot, because it is very likely u will find urself in a 3way pot with a lot less equity compared to the situation where u would only play against the shorty. This is one of those spots where it is better to save ur chips and hope the bigstack will bust the shorty and give u an opportunity to play for the win in the next few hands.

Hope this helped

hey viewer, could you please edit your post so that you either give us the minute in the video or put those hands into a converter. I hate reading hands like that... It takes just so much time and could be so easy...
thx