[Closed] SNG dissection

Originally posted by mishkagg
Yup, I got that, Flows, thank you very much.

Can I ask you a question about my SnG graph here or am I only going to derail this otherwise wonderful thread?

Hey, please don't post the graph here because it might confuse people. But you can send me the link or post the link to a thread where you posted your graph.
I will comment / answer as soon as possible!

Originally posted by LuborC
17:40 KQo if you raise to 250 and lalele shoves you cannot fold IMO. If he knows what he's doing he will shove a lot of A high hands and pockets so I think your equity against his range is too good to fold with almost 2:1 you would be getting.

You are definitely not wrong! But it is still marginal (he pushed before and is a tight player who seems to know what he's doing) and those 250 chips you lost don't really matter imo. In the video my first intention was to call but the reason for not calling here might be Heroine's stack and the fact that it's a non-turbo sng. So there will be better spots. BUT your arguments for the call are absolutely ok.

Originally posted by lessthanthreee

27:05 76s: I like the push because people still tend to fold 4bb behind when there is another SS around and if called you are very often live and have great suck-out equity.

I calculated the hand in the wizard and it's close.

It is possible, that the BB is tighter than the range I showed to you which makes this a +EV push. But in this case I don't want to get into a marginal situation when I will have much easier spots against the other two stacks.

Yeah, well, it's not about the actual image. My question is about the luck adjusted winnings in HEM in the Touney -> Graph tab. I mean - what does it show exactly?

Should it bother me that I am like 20 BI above it right now after 230 SnGs? Am I just sucking out on people and thinking I am doing OK? I am doing 92-93% in the ICM trainer after 300-400 situations per day with filters I consider to have most problems with but this adjusted EV line is bothering me.

I am new to SnG, I played SSS and I was constantly 15-20 BI below the all-in EV there and now I am above this one and I just want to know what is it showing exactly.

Originally posted by mishkagg
Yeah, well, it's not about the actual image. My question is about the luck adjusted winnings in HEM in the Touney -> Graph tab. I mean - what does it show exactly?

Should it bother me that I am like 20 BI above it right now after 230 SnGs? Am I just sucking out on people and thinking I am doing OK? I am doing 92-93% in the ICM trainer after 300-400 situations per day with filters I consider to have most problems with but this adjusted EV line is bothering me.

I am new to SnG, I played SSS and I was constantly 15-20 BI below the all-in EV there and now I am above this one and I just want to know what is it showing exactly.

Hey Mishkagg

There are so many reasons why you could be above the line, but it makes no difference IMO... what makes a difference is your quality of play, cos you can play perfectly and run way down etc. Keep working on the trainer, but posting hands and commenting on others is a great learning tool... I personally have learnt the most by participating in discussion and being corrected... You will be doing well as long as you can keep on progressing and moving forward... gl

good analysis of the 76s Flows. in hindsight it is CLOSE! and its probably better to fold because we would have been pushing a lot more before that

@Frozenrope:

Screening your video would be the worst thing you could ever do. You want
to send in a video where your game is how it is. If you only send in perfect
videos so to speak, you would never find your leaks or areas needing to
improve. I would never be embarassed if I was you, as what you really did
was gain some amazing insight on your play style and now you have such
a huge start on truly working on your game. Pride has no place here ♠_biggrin: .

@ The video makers:

I liked the videos, but there is one comment I feel I must make. I notice that when someone
is making a bad or terrible play, you call them idiots or stupid etc. I would rather see and
hear why their play is a mistake. For example on another training video, from another site,
there was a horrible shove made on the first or second hand, and it was called. Shover had
I think 88 and caller had KK. Instead of saying wow what an idiot, the coach said something
along the lines of "Well here is a horrible play shoving all your chips with 88 so early. Not
only will you most times be folded to gaining only the small amount of chips at these blinds..
if someone does call you it is more than likely with a monster, as was done here."

There are alot of beginners reading this blog as well as better players, I just feel that
they would benefit more from knowing why some of the plays they may be making are
horrible or wrong rather than hear they are a stupid player because they may have made
the same mistake in their own play.

That crazy bluff play was a good example when heroine had AA and multi handed on
the flop that shove leaves many wordless.. but maybe a brand new SNGer would have
figured with so many people in the hand and 2 kings on the board, all these callers have
ace high or smaller pairs etc etc.... and figured it was a good bluff it being rare someone
had a king in their hand. (obviously wrong line of thought but its possible for someone
to consider that shove with air if they were inexperienced.)

It is also a good spot to elaborate again on the limit being played as was done in
the video allready, on adjusting to some seriously crazy plays.

That being said, GREAT WORK guys, seriously, this blog is a success, and I will be
constantly reading it. I am going to make some more notes on the last video, and
reply with some constructive comments on specific plays as I am yet to do that.

@ 8979687 Thanks for your comments. This has been a very humbling experience which I'm glad I took my first step to truly learning how to play winning poker. With the help of Nick and Flows I can almost feel a huge upswing coming.

I also agree 100% on how other players are disscribed in video's I once belonged to a coaching site that will remain nameless. The videos I watched, when players would make brutal plays they would berate players that lack the knowledge. Call them every name for bad players in the video, donk, fish so on. What if one of the bad players happened to actually be a member or possible new member, and they happened to watch the video, do you think that would bring new business your way I think not. If you google your own poker nickname you maybe surpired what you find.

I encourage anyone interested in SNG to let this group have a look into your play it can't hurt and only help in the long run. However you need to listen to their advice and take the nessacary steps needed.

Originally posted by mishkagg
Yeah, well, it's not about the actual image. My question is about the luck adjusted winnings in HEM in the Touney -> Graph tab. I mean - what does it show exactly?

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/36/stt-strategy/500th-post-when-use-adjusted-results-616626/

very helpful thread about the adjusted winnings in hem.

Falek86 - Thank you so much!

@89... Thanks for the feedback! Of course those players who do "stupid calls" may be very intelligent. The problem is that some things are funny for us and we feel like there is absolutely no discussion needed. If we explain every trivial situation it will be annoying for those who read the pokerstrategy-articles and already worked on their game. If we might miss an interesting spot or someone doesn't understand why we say "What a bad, bad call - he is a BIG FISH!" we encourage him to ask.
Point two is that we get bored by discussing trivial spots - we want to learn sth too! Maybe we will do sth for beginners people ask us to...
I noted that and will try to explain more why some moves are bad.

adjusted winnings & EV-graphs: In my opinion those things are useless. Do you really want to know how much money you would have made? It will just show you the huuuge variance in SNGs. ( )

do you have any proposals concerning future videos? What are you interested in? You can also ask questions we might discuss in a video or here in the blog.

Have you read Harrington on Hold'em? If you have what do you guys think of the M principle and is it more suited for MTT than the ICM?

Originally posted by mishkagg
Have you read Harrington on Hold'em? If you have what do you guys think of the M principle and is it more suited for MTT than the ICM?

I read the first one and didn't learn much... The M-Principle is for high antes so it's for MTTs! (Yes, I know that the antes at Pokerstars are higher than on other sides, but that just changes the ICM a little and has not much to do with the M-Principle.)
In general it's just something every tournament-player should know.

As far as knowing your luck adjusting winnings, It is a results orientated way of thinking,
but reading it over it makes me ask myself a few questions.... Lets say I am KILLING a limit,
and the profits are easy, and it is not because of a heater, but because my skill level is
good enough to smoke the limit with how many tables I am playing....

Then I try say adding 5 more tables at a time, or I keep the same amount of tables but
I jump right into a higher limit and then boom 1000 game downswing. And after 1000 games
it doesnt improve. Would knowing if it was truly related to making the right plays and having
variance be a factor or your skill level good enough to be the limit lower but not ready for the
higher limit yet enable you to adjust what you are playing so that you can be making an optimum
profit from your daily grind?

And knowing how much of a bitch variance really can be could also motivate you to play on knowing
that your skill level is high enough, you just need to fight through the variance.

anyways aside from that I would like to add that I am really looking forward to seeing some of the 6 max stuff
that has been mentioned.

This is a great idea for a blog, and I check for updates daily.

hi,

in general, it's better to move down earlier imo. Yes variance can be brutal!
But you have to be carefull abount that subject, you cannot blame everything on variance!

Originally posted by Flows
hi,

in general, it's better to move down earlier imo. Yes variance can be brutal!
But you have to be carefull abount that subject, you cannot blame everything on variance!

Thats exactly what I meant, you can not blame everything on variance but if there was a tool out
there to accurately determine how much of your game is truly affected by variance and how much
is affected by your skill level you would be able to move down as fast as possible.

But with reviewing your own game and posting hands and watching videos, and using The Lizard,
you would be able to assess yourself how much of your results is variance orientated.

I see in blogs often and I made the mistake myself of jumping into something new and using
the limits my BR could support instead of starting at a lower limit for the lack of my
skills in the certain game type which would also apply to limits of the same variant.

Anyhow didn't want to hijack your thread. Just wanted to give an opinion on the luck factor tools.

Originally posted by 8979687
[...]
Anyhow didn't want to hijack your thread. Just wanted to give an opinion on the luck factor tools.

That's exactly what we want! We don't want to just show you some videos but we want you to ask questions so that we can start discussing! So if you have any other questions, do ask!

Hey guys I just want to let you know, this thread is not dead.

I have a lot of work to do for university and Nick is far away from home (-> his blog). I'm bronze....

I think you will get some new content after christmas!

That's good to know as I've sent you a juicy tournament for your consideration

Great blog! and...

bump

Is this blog still in active?