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[Closed] [coaching-feedback] NL SSS Gold with xarry2 - wednesdays at 7pm CET

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hey xarry,
i play nl200/400sh and try to optimize my resteal chart.
In the last post you took a few resteal calling ranges.

Do you use these ranges because of your experiance and can you please complete the list ( 15-25% or something)

I know, every opponent is different and has his own preferences when there is a resteal to call.
But I search the most realistic one's to calculate with (regular 6max players)

Would be very helpful


man i really cant find the link for the nice handy chart you were using in the second part of advanced SSS video, in the very end of the vid..please can you post the exact link behind my comment.
but i did read the last five pages so at least i did learned something new anyway..
thx man _cool: _cool:


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007
xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

@wuusaa:
hmm, I think this always depends on too many different factors to say something accurate. I actually always decide from situation to situation. You can however get some basic callingranges by simply taking a look at the total openraising range. Then you just have to erase the weakest hands step by step, always in like 10% foldequity steps.
Imo its most important to know how much FE you have and how much equity your hand has in average. If you know those values by heart you can easily modify the rest with your experience.

Well, you can post your work here and I can take a look at it if you want. Maybe I can help you then. But without the background its hard to say something - and anyway: imo you shouldn't put too much efforts into charts, especially on SH they are too static and individual adaption is working much better

best regards,
xarry


thanks for the chart man..


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

Adv SSS Coaching - 01/27

5,00/10,00 No-Limit Hold'em (7 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A♠, K♣
MP1 folds, MP2 raises to $30,00, Hero raises to $70,00, 5 folds.

Final Pot: $115,00

MP2 stats: VPIP 17, PFR 10, MP openraise 12%, fold vs 3bet 55%, call vs 3bet 41%

With bigger stacks than 20BB or against small openraises direct pushs are often not the only alternative we've got. We can often decide for a normal raise as well. Whats the problem of pushing directly in this hand? The answer lies in an EV calculation:

EV = Pot*Foldequity + (1-Foldequity)[(eff.Stack+Deadmoney)*Equity – ((eff.Stack-Blind)*(1-Equity))]

EV = 45*Foldequity + (1-Foldequity)[(230+15-3)*Equity – ((230-0)*(1-Equity))]

MP2's openraisingrange could be ~22+,ATs+,KQs,QJs,JTs,AJo+,KQo (11.6%). What are possible callingranges for MP2 against a direct push from us? The pot odds he would get for calling our all in are 272$/200$ which equals ~ 42.4% breakevenequity for him. This means one possible callingrange would be every hand with 42.4%+ equity against our reraising range. We will probably reraise ~99+,AQs+,AKo. 88 is possible due to 52% equity but its problematic since villain will almost never calls with worse pockets, thus in case we get called we're in a very bad shape. Against this range MP2 can only call JJ+,AKs,AKo profitable with the given pot odds. Of course most BSS players don't play exactly according to equity and thus we have to calculate with looser callingranges as well. Let's take the following:

equity: JJ+,AKs,AKo (3% => we achieve 74% foldequity and have 39.8% equity)
loose1: TT+,AQs+,AQo+ (4.7% => we achieve 59% foldequity and have 49.2% equity)
loose2: 99+,AJs+,AJo+ (6.3% => we achieve 46% foldequity and have 53.3% equity)

EV vs equity callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.74 + 0.26[(242$*0.398 – 230$*0.602] = 22.34$

EV vs loose1 callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.59 + 0.41[(242$*0.492 – 230$*0.508] = 27.46$

EV vs loose2 callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.46 + 0.54[(242$*0.533 – 230$*0.467] = 32.35$

What if we had AQs instead of AKs?

vs equity callingrange AQs has 32.1% equity
vs loose1 callingrange AQs has 37.8% equity
vs loose2 callingrange AQs has 45.6% equity

EV vs equity callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.74 + 0.26[(242$*0.321 – 230$*0.679] = 12.89$

EV vs loose1 callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.59 + 0.41[(242$*0.378 – 230$*0.622] = 5.40$

EV vs loose2 callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.46 + 0.54[(242$*0.456 – 230$*0.544] = 12.73$

What if we had 99 instead of AKs?

vs equity callingrange 99 has 33.2% equity
vs loose1 callingrange 99 has 37.3% equity
vs loose2 callingrange 99 has 41.0% equity

EV vs equity callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.74 + 0.26[(242$*0.332 – 230$*0.668] = 14.24$

EV vs loose1 callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.59 + 0.41[(242$*0.373 – 230$*0.627] = 4.43$

EV vs loose2 callingrange:

EV = 45$*0.46 + 0.54[(242$*0.41 – 230$*0.59] = 1.00$

At first sight we don't see a clear tendency wether its better to play against looser or tighter callingranges. A closer look however reveals that the deciding facor (if foldequity and raisesize are constant) is how many hands dominating our reraising hand are in the callingrange of our opponent - or the other way round: the more hands we dominate when getting called the more profit we make. AK is rather unproblematic since it is only dominated by AA and KK. Therefore the looser our opponent calls the more hands we dominate and the more profit we make. We should add that with the given openraising range 0% foldequity would just result in a ~15$ winning. This is due to the many pocket pairs we have given MP2 which of course always have a slightly better coinflip than we have. Thus the EV tendencies are never just tending one way up/down.
With AQs our EV with much FE is the highest of our 3 sample-callingranges. The reason is that we can compensate the equity loos with so much FE. The second sample against AQ/TT+ has the worst EV. There the reaon is the highly deacreasing foldequity and the comparatively small gain of equity. The thirs sample however increases our EV again. Why? Well, the FE decreases but our equity increases significantly since our opponent now calls with AJ - a hand which we dominate.
The third example is the weakest pocket pair we reraise in this spot. (the low EV results indicate that we can easily end up -EV when reraising 88 btw). With high FE our EV is the biggest and it deacreases with looser callingranges. But only since our chosen samples always add more dominating pocket pairs to the callingrange. If we added even more looser calling ranges also the EV of 99 would increase again since villain would call with 88/77 ect as well.

There are two main conclusions out of the calculation. First, it is deciding for our EV how domination effects on our equity in case we get called. The callingrange of our opponent is of vital importance for this. Second there is a big EV difference between the different hands we can reraise according to an equity edge against the total openraising range. Having 50%+ equity does by no means at all guarantee profit.
Since maximizing the foldequity with pushing 99 or similar hands and raising small with AK to get more worse calls is no option against thinking players we have to find a balanced line which in average results in the best profit. So far my conclusion is that for our total reraising range its best to play against looser callingranges. That's why I made such a small reraise. I do so against TAGs/Thinking players which aren't too loose. Against fishes its of course best to maximize the raisingsize since most of them call too loose anyway - against a push or a normal raise. The TAGs however will definetely change their callingrange against a push or against a normal/small raise. The small raise will lead to more preflop calls which leads to a reraised pot HU IP mostly. Thats a pretty nice spot. We can put maximum pressure on our opponent postflop and may also make many better hands fold with correctly placed cbets. This needs some postflop experience though. In addition it will sometimes happen that your opponent does not want to give up a speculative holding and starts pushing with a hand which he would otherwise fold to your normal raise/push. This can boost your equity pretty much.
Well, maybe you can give your opinions to this topic here as well. I'm aware that there are also disadvantages of playing the 3bets this way. But apllied correctly against the different opponent types it is imo a more profitable play than the direct pushs - especially with big stacks or against small openraises.

best regards,
xarry


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

For all of you who asked for my current HEM HUD:

http://www.file-upload.net/download-2222846/nudnew.rar.html


Xarry, i have a question about using your excel sheet.

Say for this hand@ NL50. I am on the SB with 8.64 (before putting in the blind).

CO raises 3BB. He has 38% raise first in on CO. I assume he will call me with about a 14-15% range if i shove. I gave him all broadways, ATo+, A8s+ all pocket pairs.

The range i entered gives me about 40% equity vs A4s. From his fold to 3-bet stats, i give myself about 60% fold equity.

So question is how to i enter all these values into the excel sheet?

Pot = 0.25+0.5+1.5 = 2.25
Eff. Stack = 8.64 or 8.39 ?
Dead Money = 0.5 or 0.75 ?
Equity = 40%
Fold Equity = 60%
Blind/Bet = 0.25

Not sure about the Eff. Stack and Dead Money values.

Also when i calculate equity, i should calculate vs only the hands that will call me right?


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

Hi elhh82!

if you're not sure it always helps taking a look at the underlying formula:

EV = Pot*Foldequity + (1-Foldequity)[(eff.Stack+Deadmoney)*Equity – ((eff.Stack-Blind)*(1-Equity))]

(eff.Stack+Deadmoney)*Equity, thats what we can win.
eff. stack is 8.64 since CO has to pay our current stack+the SB if he calls us.

considering the deadmoney you have to count all the blinds minus rake. when you push you can win the SB, the BB and the eff. stack from your opponent.

(eff.Stack-Blind)*(1-Equity), and thats what we can loose, thus again the initial starting stack but minus the SB since we can't loose it anymore.

Best regards,
xarry


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

Adv SSS Coaching - 02/10

this weaks coaching we mostly had hands without much discussion. thats why I just have one interesting hand for you this weak:

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)      
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/pfr/af/wts/ats/foldbb/w$sd;Hero$84,00:///////;CO$58,47:///////;[/tg]
2,00/4,00 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with T♦, T♥
3 folds, Hero raises to $12,00, CO calls $12,00, 3 folds.

Flop: ($30,00) 2♥, 7♠, J♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $20,00, Hero raises to $48,00, CO calls $26,47.

Turn: ($124,47) K♣
River: ($124,47) 9♠

Final Pot: $124,47

CO: 29 VPIP, 9 PFR, coldcall BU 22%
and: lost almost all his money on this table

The flop which we hit isn't the best but it could be worse. Actually we just have to fear Jx, 77 and 22. Higher pockets are usually not in the callingrange of CO since its unlikely he calls those hands vs my late MP openraise. Further the 9% PFR are not that passive to asume such strong coldcalls. Whats nice about the board is that it provides many drawing possibilities like flushdraws and gutshots. That's why cbetting and calling a raise is possible here. The pot is already quite big in relation to the effective remaining stack from CO - thus if we cbet we should also call an all-in due to the good pot odds and the drawing possibilities.
However I decided to check here. My motivation was connected with the read on CO that he just recently lost most of his money on this table. many players start getting despaired and tilt. Its rather likely that CO will call or push a lot of weak hands against a cbet but we can encourage CO to bluff even a bit looser if we check to him. Especially despaired players will push very very often then - also if they don't have a hand. Furthermore this is a board where our check doesn't look suspicious. We could easily be unimproved. In the end CO made a bet. Since he doesn't push we should do so. Now that he bet he commited himself to the pot with almost anything so we don't have to fear to scare him out of the pot any longer.

Best regards,
xarry

Next weeks coaching I'll have Gerv as co-coach. I'll play as usually and he'll comment my game and answer your questions.


Gerv
Joined: 07.05.2008

Oh I forgot to hop in yesterday, I'm sorry :( But yes I will be present since I will be in Munich BMP together with xarry2.


Good work


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

Adv SSS Coaching - 02/24

Known players: (for a description of vp$ip, pfr, ats, folded bb, af, wts, wsd or hands click here)      
[tg]Hero$43,45:///////;BB$65,27:///////;MP2$204,00:///////;[/tg]
1,00/2,00 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Texas Grabem 1.9 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q♥, K♥
3 folds, MP2 calls $2,00, 3 folds, Hero calls $1,00, BB checks.

Flop: ($6,00) 3♥, 4♠, 9♥ (3 players)
Hero bets $4,70, BB calls $4,70, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($15,40) T♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $10,63, BB raises to $21,26, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $47,29

MP2: VPIP 15 / PFR 2, limp in MP 12%, limp/call 66%, limp/raise 20%
BB unknown

With the very passive MP2 raising KQ is not the only possible line in this spot. Completing and deciding on the flop when to play gives us more information and avoids isolating against MP2 strong limp/calling range. If villain limp/folds more the raise gets more interesting though.

Our monsterdraw should be played with maximum aggression on the flop in order to achieve foldequity. Since we're heads up on the turn and no draws did improve a second barrel is a possible choice. If we know BB likes to bet a lot against missed bets a checkraise is also possible - due to our still big remaining stack we can also achive foldequity this way.

The question which aroused in the coaching was wether to fold, call or push against the minraise from villain. First of all pot odds are essential to consider. The total pot is 15.40$+10.63$+21.26$ = 47.29$ if we consider calling. In case we push we have to assume BB directly raises us all-in on the turn. Then the total pot is 15.40$+10.63$+36.75$ = 62.78$. In this case we have to call our 26.12$ remaing stack. The pot odds are 2.4:1 and we thus need at least 29.4% equity to be breakeven. In case we just call the raise the pots odds are 47.29$:10.63$ = 4.45:1 and thus we need to improve on the river in at least 18.4%.
Lets deal with the call option first. I can't really imagine what villain can play this way. 2 options are most likely for me, either he slowplayed something on the flop or he called with overcards on the flop an catched another draw or top pair. I don't think he plays unimproved draws this way. Thus my evaluation of his range is rather strong. Consequently I assume he is already commited to the pot with most of his holdings. Thats the point for just calling: we can play fit or fold on the river and he will pay us mostly for our small remaining stack. If we improve we push, otherwise we fold. The advantage is to have the minimum risk due to the decent pot odds. I would push the river with every heart and every J. Wether our KQ outs are good enough to be pushed is harder to say. A possible play could be check/calling K or Q rivers. This gives BB the opportunity to bluff if he really has unimroved draws. However this depends much on BB aggressiveness. This line definetely works: even in our worst case - if villain has a set and only our heart and J outs are alive - we still have 22.7% equity left. Combined with the remaining implied odds this makes a nice profit. The EV of this worst case scenario would be:

EV = 0.227*62.78$ - 0.773*10.63$ = 6.03$

The other option would be to push. But we then have no foldequity. Thus we should assume a direct all-in raise from villain on the turn. The pot odds are as calculated above 2.4:1 and we thus need at least 29.4% equity to be breakeven.
What can villain have?

set (e.g. 33,44,99), we have 22.7% equity left
2 pair (e.g. T9 or 43) we have 25% equity left
top pair (e.g. AT, JT, QT...), we have ~36-38% equity left
other flushdraw( e.g. Axs, 87s), against higher and lower flushdraws in a ratio 1:1 we have 50% equity
OESD, (e.g. 65 or QJ), we have 80.5% equity left
overcard bluff ( e.g. AJ, KQ, KJ) we have 60.9% equity left

If you've got different ideas about possible hand categories for villain just post them here!

Now its about to weigh those categories in a reasonable way. Since we haven't got much information its always good to assume different scenarios from worst-case to good assumptions.

a)
set 35%
2 pair 30%
top pair 20%
other flushdraw 5%
OESD 5%
overcard bluff 5%

Our total equity would be: 22.7*0.35 + 25*0.3 + 37*0.2 + 50*0.05 + 80.5*0.05 + 60.9*0.05 = 32.4%

EV = 0.324*62.78$ - 0.676*26.12$ = 2.68$

b)
set 25%
2 pair 25%
top pair 25%
other flushdraw 10%
OESD 5%
overcard bluff 10%

Our total equity would be: 22.7*0.25 + 25*0.25 + 37*0.25 + 50*0.1 + 80.5*0.05 + 60.9*0.1 = 36.3%

EV = 0.363*62.78$ - 0.637*26.12$ = 6.15$

c)
set 20%
2 pair 20%
top pair 20%
other flushdraw 15%
OESD 10%
overcard bluff 15%

Our total equity would be: 22.7*0.2 + 25*0.2 + 37*0.2 + 50*0.15 + 80.5*0.1 + 60.9*0.15 = 41.6%

EV = 0.416*62.78$ - 0.584*26.12$ =10.86$

The result is the following: against a very tight and strong range calling has the higher EV. as soon as villain however starts bluffing or raising looser hands the direct push gives us the higher EV. In any case folding, which I did is thw worst decision. :(
But now we know better :)

Best regards,
xarry


Hi, what filter on pt3 do you suggest to use to analyze our game in particular spots?
For example open limp, limp w p c, 3bet, and so on


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

hmm, since I don't use pt3 I unfortunately can't help you there. you could try posting in the software forum for example. I assume you will find help there.

best regards,
xarry


Originally posted by xarry2
hmm, since I don't use pt3 I unfortunately can't help you there. you could try posting in the software forum for example. I assume you will find help there.

best regards,
xarry

And in HM? I can filter with pt3 like hm


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

Well, depending on which situation I want to analyze I take different filters. In the end if I'm dealing with limps I chose filters in a way which fits to limped pots, and for 3bets e.g...
I'm actually not sure how to help you ?(
So, if you're looking out for filter settings which already suit on certain spots I don't have any. I always try different filters and see what I get :)

and I anyway "lost" my whole database so filtering won't lead to much results currently


pablojavier
Joined: 09.10.2008

Hi xarry, i am from spanish community, but i read your coachings analisis.

Nowadays i play in NL100 FR in PS, and I am having problems with two things:

-freeplays:

I dont know what to do with TP weak kicker... i think that i los money here cause a lot of fishes limps and play middle pair or draws agresively...

What do i have to do in A high boards? and K high? I think it is a good spot to be agressive and outplay the villans, but I dont know the best line? check raise? 1st and 2nd barrel? which stats do i have to look?

-blinds battle (sb vs bb):

when i am called, i think that they float me really often, boards sacarys like K high, A high, Q high

I am loosing money there, but I realise that the villains plays agressive (raise cbet) with middle pair and bottom pair, and they are not fishes, they are wining regulars.

I hope you can advise me some "standards" movements postflop to improve this 2 situations.

Thanks


hey xarry,
can you upload your current HEM layout please.

And what limits do you play at the moment? you play bss I think?


xarry2
Joined: 02.01.2007

Hi pablojavier!

the spots you've got problems with are definetley difficult to play - mainly since you're OOP. overall the only solution for your problems is that you make up your mind about villains range. e.g. take a look at his limp% and openraise% in the position where villain limps. this makes it a lot easier to estimate what villain can have. which line you should take always depends on your opponent. the more loose/passive your opponent is the more you should concentrate on valuebetting and maybe betting if there is foldequity.
the more aggressive your opponent gets the more you can also include some checkraises into your play. but in the end there is no "standard" line which always work. I think its very essential that you realize: every single spot deserves an individual solution to be played optimally. further I would recommend to take notes and include the history you've got with your opponents into your play.
when you're cbets get raised or called always think about villains range and whats thebest line against it. keeping track of pot odds is of course vital to these spots. you should calculate (estimate if you're experienced with it) the break even equity you need at least to have an EV=0. if you have this equity against villains range you can continue. if not you should fold.
If you take a look at all the posts here you will find a lot about this!

feel free to ask further if this answer didn't help you :) but I can't and won't give you an answer like: case a => line a ect. this is extremley simplified and worked like 2 years ago. nowadays even on NL 100 most opponents know about cbetting, floating ect. just having a fixed strategy will make you extremeley exploitable - the key to succes is always to think about and understand the plays you make.

best regards,
xarry