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[Closed] KK vs a flop donk on a Axx board

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OlivierLu
Joined: 17.11.2007

Hi,

I just have a strategic discussion with some french player. I'd like to have other point of view as we disagree ;).

Here is the general situation.

We have KK and we raise PF. The BB calls or we raise one limper. The flop is HU and we are in position.

Board Axx, no draw.
Villain donks, hero ?

I argue this was a wa/wb situation. A good player argues for a flop raise.

Another more specific situation: The PF action is the same but the board is A:d 8:d T:d. Villain donks, hero has KK no diamond ?

I guess this 2nd one is a bit closer between call and raise flop, but I prefer to call flop/raise turn for free showdown on a safe turn card.


5 replies

Well first situation depends on the villian. On a random board with no draws and only one face card - the A I prefer to stay passive. But if there is a chance that villains range hits more the A or may play draws like this or he is aggressive and stupid enough, I go for call flop raise turn. The second situation is just the thing I am talking about, and I totally agree with you, raise a safe turn, and depending on river and opponent you could have even a river value bet.


OlivierLu
Joined: 17.11.2007

Ty for the answer.

Another question: Would you play the hand differently on a 0.1/0.2 table rather than on a, say, 2/4 table?


This situation depends too much on your opponent to give general advice, in my opinion.

Against unknown players I tend to just call down. I don't see the advantage I gain with raising. Bluffs might fold directly, I lose more against Ax, I can't protect, I don't get much information about his holding.


Originally posted by OlivierLu
Ty for the answer.

Another question: Would you play the hand differently on a 0.1/0.2 table rather than on a, say, 2/4 table?

Ofcourse, game dynamics are so different. Generally because opponents are different, so the examples you gave are really opponent depending.


Hi OlivierLu,

well even the decision limps or calls the BB is a huge difference.
A limper is rarely a good player (well almost never) where the BB caller can be good.

In both cases A-high is very likely in his range (more often in the BB).

A donkbet is again a bad move so he is probably a bad player. Well that means that he will call too much against aggression.

However I prefer the passive line. A bluff will be made here pretty often and may fold to a raise where as with a call he might continue bluffing.
You won't make him fold better hands either and raising for value is thin.
So yes this is wa/wb for me.

The 3-suited flop is a bit different. Here I think you can raise the turn sometimes for a free showdown but I would hate to be 3-bet. So if he is capable of 3-bet semibluffing I go for the save call again.