[Closed] EV, is being above/below overrated or misunderstood?

Personally I've stopped buggering myself with EV the past year. Pretty much every player here in the long run will stay under EV, it just happens when you play ABC poker as you try to go in with the best hands and you will get suckouts. You might have a period in the short run where you're above, but in the long run...

As you learn the game you'll play less the cards and focus more on the players, there EV will just loose any meaning.

Originally posted by degre
Personally I've stopped buggering myself with EV the past year. Pretty much every player here in the long run will stay under EV, it just happens when you play ABC poker as you try to go in with the best hands and you will get suckouts. You might have a period in the short run where you're above, but in the long run...

As you learn the game you'll play less the cards and focus more on the players, there EV will just loose any meaning.

What????

No! in the long run every player will aproach EV. It stands for expected value, the value to be expected

I'm talking about my experience and, so far, most of the graph I've seen on this site of long runs are running below EV.

If I'm correct, at least on pokertracker the EV we're talking about is "allin EV" which compares how much two hands were expected to win preflop, but it doesn't take into account action after the flop? So how can it be a reliable stat when post flop situation are so important?

You are not correct =). All-in EV is the EV at the point you go all-in. It includes the flop and turn cards and is your percentage of winning multiplied by how much you will gain if you win minus the the opposite.
If you have AJ and hit 4 of a kind jacks then on the turn get the rest of your money in against someone with AA your EV is based on your 100% chance of winning. It is not 20% of what you will win as that statistic would be truly useless ( although all-in EV isn't massively useful over time anyway as the whole point is that it should even out)
Hope that makes it clearer

Originally posted by pondlife78
You are not correct =). All-in EV is the EV at the point you go all-in. It includes the flop and turn cards and is your percentage of winning multiplied by how much you will gain if you win minus the the opposite.
If you have AJ and hit 4 of a kind jacks then on the turn get the rest of your money in against someone with AA your EV is based on your 100% chance of winning. It is not 20% of what you will win as that statistic would be truly useless ( although all-in EV isn't massively useful over time anyway as the whole point is that it should even out)
Hope that makes it clearer

This ^^

For example if you have an overpair and someone moves in and has a smaller overpair, they have about 4% equity (assuming no draws), to hit there set, if they hit this 2 outer you will drop under EV. However, they are expected to hit this 4% of the time, so in the long run this *should* average out.

I have been thinking about this allot latelya and I think you will go under EV in the long run because of they way you play.

If you play bss:
You'll probably only be all-in by the time you hit the river, meaning that every hand you play will be right on the EV line, because nothing can change anymore as there are no more cards to come on the table.
When will there be a diffrence between the EV and your actually winnings? when you go all-in preflop/flop/turn. Now this normally only happens when you have monster hands.
Lets say you have pocket Aces, if you go preflop all-in and you win then you'll stay on the EV line. if you go preflop all-in and lose, you'll go under the line.

The only way to go above the EV is to suckout. But because we play tight agressive, we'll have far less suckouts then other players have when playing.
example: yesterday a guy broke my pocket K's with 86os. no way that anyone here would call a potsized raise (preflop) with 86os. thus eliminating a chance for you to suckout... (btw this hand was right on the EV line because when we got all-in on the flop he had hit his double pair, so he had the best hand)

in short (i could go on but I think my opinion is clear)
yes we'll suck out sometimes, but when we go all-in we'll have the best hand most of the time. thus giving us much more chance to go below EV then above it.

Originally posted by Anraxas
Lets say you have pocket Aces, if you go preflop all-in and you win then you'll stay on the EV line. if you go preflop all-in and lose, you'll go under the line.

This is your mistake, when you win a preflop all-in with pocket aces, you will be above your EV-line, because you only have like 80% against another pocket pair.

8 out of 10 times you should be a little bit above EV and 2 times your winnings will be a lot below EV. In the long run your winnings will be close to your EV line.

Originally posted by Fladdermouse

Originally posted by Anraxas
Lets say you have pocket Aces, if you go preflop all-in and you win then you'll stay on the EV line. if you go preflop all-in and lose, you'll go under the line.

This is your mistake, when you win a preflop all-in with pocket aces, you will be above your EV-line, because you only have like 80% against another pocket pair.

8 out of 10 times you should be a little bit above EV and 2 times your winnings will be a lot below EV. In the long run your winnings will be close to your EV line.

ok that indeed changes things

All this all-in pre-flop stuff with Aces is wrong.

As someone previously mentioned it's the point you go all-in that matters.

So if you go all-in pre-flop you will AWAYS have +EV. However if you get called pre-flop and then go all-in on the flop and your opponent has hit a set (for example) then you WILL BE -EV!

Also, forget EV line on your graph hardly means anything. Just concentrate on reviewing your hands and seeing where you could of saved money. You'll get a lot further.