[Closed] NL400 SH 150bb deep with QQ, flatting 4bet IP

playing like that i think that i shove on the flop.

Well, if you have a read that he rarely 4bet-bluffs and is able to call weaker hands oop, you find yourself in a very troublesome spot by 3betting. Now you might go along and try some leveling, but if you had some history with him vs UTG as well, I believe that he more often than not 4bets AQ/KQ/AK in this spot just to bring more money into the pot, guessing you would call his 4bet IP anyway.

I cant say, if he's the guy to call or 4bet TT/JJ in that spot, but going with your assumption you should almost always r/c the flop. There's multiple reasons for that:
- he rarely bluffs his stack off with on blank turns, since he can't expect you to be folding
- there might eventually be some cards that kill the action

As played it's a pretty easy fold imo on the turn. Even if he knows your holding is somewhat marginal, KQ and AK, as well as KT/KJ are a decent part of your range, as well as AQ. And this is why it's an easy fold especially given the odds.

Originally posted by Ninjai
I cant say, if he's the guy to call or 4bet TT/JJ in that spot, but going with your assumption you should almost always r/c the flop. There's multiple reasons for that:
- he rarely bluffs his stack off with on blank turns, since he can't expect you to be folding
- there might eventually be some cards that kill the action

I tend to disagree with raise/calling the flop given what we know from Villian. If his 4Bet-Range is strong to begin with, it certainly won't contain many worse hands in UTG and AJ is probably not among them, although it might occasionally. His range for 4betting pre and cbetting this flop is very strong and I don't think we will get called by a range against which we do well against.

Again, if his range is assumed to be strong pre, he will hardly ever be bluffing this turncard. What can he possibly hope to fold out on the turn from our Prefloprange except for QQ? Guess he can discount a few sets from our range given the flop-texture but since you described him as a rather straightforward player, I would give him credit here, fold the turn and hope I just didn't get abused ♦

All in all I cannot agree totally. If we 3bet, we shouldn't be folding to a 4bet. But if we call the 4bet, we should have reasons for doing so. One important reason is, villain is being put on some light bluffs preflop. If you image a situation, where his 4bet/c range was TT+/AK and no bluffs, why should we ever call the 4bet then? Just to get stacked by sets/OP and miss value from TT/JJ+AK postflop if they don't improve?

Even if we consider stacks, we should pretty much think our gameplan over if we tend to call a 4bet w. QQ here and just make a calldown on a board where he isn't expecting us to have a strong calldown-range. Nanonoko is probably one of the best thinking players out there and he knows our holding looks exactly the way it is. We'll probably never call anything worse than TT,AQs here if at all, so once we call the flop, our hand is pretty face up, as I don't see us playin KK+ or a set like that tbh.

Looking back on the fact, you've been 3betting him a lot, he's more likely than not to play back and by playing back I fairly believe he's never folding AK/AQ in this spot. While he might eventually even turn KQ into bluff, he's imo simply interested into loading as much money into the pot as possible, to have an easy game postflop by just b/shipping any flop for the pure fact of the tons of dead money accumulated.

Last but not least: If I don't expect him to a have a bluffing-range, why would I ever think of callin QQ here pre?

Well in my post I was assuming a tight 4Bet-Range with regard to the information in OPs initial post.

If both, his range and our perceived range, are wider than mostly premiums, I wouldn't fold here but get it in on the flop as you suggested. Reason being, that a range which also includes 4Bet Bluffs Preflop, will definitely include worse hands than ours which will stack off. Obviously his Preflop-range is a significant factor consider, given this shallow stack/pot ratio.

standard, r F makes no sense