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[Closed] NL100 SH: cold 4bet JJ in bb, getting called. Q high flop.

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Full Tilt - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $173.55
SB: $100.00
Hero (BB): $100.00
UTG: $105.50
MP: $105.05
CO: $138.10

SB posts SB $0.50, Hero posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has J♣ J♥

std is flatting, decided to cold 4bet for balancing.

fold, MP raises to $3.50, fold, fold, SB raises to $11.50, Hero raises to $24.00, fold, SB calls $12.50

he is unknown but probably should have a tight range. probably around AQ+ and 99+.

Flop: ($51.50, 2 players) 2♦ Q♠ 4♦
SB checks, Hero bets $25.00, SB calls $25.00

so his range now is AQ, and QQ+, I want to bluff AQ and KK. It shouldn't work too often, time to give up?

Turn: ($101.50, 2 players) 5♥
SB checks


6 replies
Shevtshenko
Joined: 06.12.2009

No stats on villains? I personally don't like flatting that ~ever. I'd say that the most profitable way of playing JJ in that spot (without reads and stats) is to fold preflop. Haven't played sh for a while, yet it seems to me that calling isn't +ev and 4betting turns your hand into a bluff.


Purity
Joined: 28.01.2008

My standard is to fold pre-flop aswel. I don't think I could play JJ profitable if I would flat pre-flop unless I have a specific reason to do so.

And like Shev said 4betting pretty much turns your hand into a bluff.

But maybe you can play it profitable flatting pre-flop, atleast I know that's not the case for me :)


Shevtshenko
Joined: 06.12.2009

so his range now is AQ, and QQ+, I want to bluff AQ and KK. It shouldn't work too often, time to give up?

Do you honestly think that one is folding those to 1/2 pot sized bet on turn after peeling the flop? It was propably the time to give up on flop, or atleast not to cbet since there's absolutely no value in a cbet.


VzLOM
Joined: 23.12.2007

std is flatting

std here is folding imo.
On flop no1 folding AQ+.


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Originally posted by maya1984
std is flatting

:f_o:

Please don't call this ;(.

There's a good chance you're playing 3way in a 3bet pot with JJ, iirc the probability of an overcard on the board is about 70%.
And btw it's impossible to balance your callingrange here - what weak hands could you possibly have here?

So I agree with the previous posters, this should be a 4bet or fold decision preflop.
Vs unknowns I'd probably also fold although I'd feel like a nit once more, but against 99+,AQ+ we're only flipping anyway and there's a good chance he even folds 99-JJ and AQ - in this case we have 50% foldequity but only 36% potequity so it's -EV to 4bet (if i estimated correctly).


Tim64
Joined: 03.11.2008

Sorry to agree with everyone else, but I do. Also, I think the range you give SB for calling a cold 4b oop is quite optimistic.

I think he almost never has AQ there (if he thought that hand was likely to be ahead of your cold 4b range, hed most likely just ship pre). I also think he doesn't have hands like 99/TT for the same reason - he can hardly call for set value.

So I think you're looking at QQ+ every time (not even AK - since he just push or fold pre-)

Realistically, none of those hands are folding on this flop, so I just give up.