[Closed] JJ, standard fold?

Depends on Villain, and UTG; (Do you have stats?)

If UTG was TAG; HJ is shoving his entire range imo; since he should not have big FE.

If UTG is not TAG; HJ is not pushing Ks and As imo.

If you give him; 9s-Qs; AK; AQ; you have a clear call with Js imo;

call

JJ+/AK

you can't get through mtts without flipping.

Originally posted by amplifyd
call

JJ+/AK

you can't get through mtts without flipping.

+1

HJ, UTG have to be super nits for me to fold Js in that spot.

hmm u all think that JJ we have + EV call in this spot most of the time for 30+bb efective stacks, vs utg +1 open, utg+2 call and HJ shoving? (utg+1 and MP r still to act behind us)

Originally posted by bonebt
hmm u all think that JJ we have + EV call in this spot most of the time for 30+bb efective stacks, vs utg +1 open, utg+2 call and HJ shoving? (utg+1 and MP r still to act behind us)

For me it is very read dependent.

UTG+2 is death money for me, unless I have reason to believe that he is flatting with Ks+ to induce a squize.

Therefore I am considering UTG+1, HJ only.

If UTG+1 and HJ at nits I fold Js in that spot, since; HJ range is Qs+ AK and we have 36% equity, hence snap fold.

From other hand, if UTG1 is LAG; HJ is shoving way wider than that, because he has big FE; imo he is shoving, Qs-9s (8s); AK; AQ; (AJs maybe) and we have 57.6% (60.1%) equity, which makes it a call.

Imo, he will 3bet Ks, As, rather thank 3bet push (in that case).

I generally agree with vidrata. I have to have reads that they are all super nitty to consider folding tbh. I mean I guess there is maybe an argument for folding to create an edge, but most of time I am just gnna call.

And I hope you are not 3betting and not 3bshoving KK/AA if you are in MP shoes vidrata

Originally posted by amplifyd
I generally agree with vidrata. I have to have reads that they are all super nitty to consider folding tbh. I mean I guess there is maybe an argument for folding to create an edge, but most of time I am just gnna call.

And I hope you are not 3betting and not 3bshoving KK/AA if you are in MP shoes vidrata

If I am in MPs shoes with Ks / As it depends on UTG+1 (nit / LAG) and people behind, there are few good 3bet pushing stacks so if there is a case for flatting with Ks / As to induce.

Also depends how active I was. In general I want As / Ks in my 3beting range otherwise to an observant opponent my 3bet range becomes way weaker. About MP 3bet shoving he is way to deep for that (32K).

Totally off topic: Are you going to play in the Red Spade Open?

I meant HJ - and idk kinda broke atm ♠_love:

of course is read dependent.
i was talking about random default decision vs unknown randoms read less who have kinda tagish stats (all of them UTG+1, MP, HJ)
i do not think that vs randoms this is + EV call

I do - but I don't think theres much edge in it - and we probably create a lot larger reciprocal edge by folding and lessen the variance.

Anyhow its not that hard to work out EV with pen and paper but i cba obv ♠_love:

call unless LP is nit

id be getting it with TT as well fwiw.

what do u think HJ does with AJ and 88 ? answer that Qn and this decision becomes very easy

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
id be getting it with TT as well fwiw.

what do u think HJ does with AJ and 88 ? answer that Qn and this decision becomes very easy

i dont think that shoving with AJ/88 from HJ is +EV play (tbh i fold AJ most of the time in that spot)

btw I'm not that woried about HJ im worried about utg opener + MP flater

Im not a fan of calling TT because I agree with bonebt.

We do have to remember this is a $11

Originally posted by amplifyd
We do have to remember this is a $11

And that fact impies what?

@topic: I would bring it in if MP is a fish und LP isn't nitty. If MP is a reg, he is probably often trapping KK+ in this spot.

Originally posted by TheSenseman

Originally posted by amplifyd
We do have to remember this is a $11

And that fact impies what?

that people dont fold like AQ/AK like almost never(i mean for UTG/MP hand if we over shove they call it off with AQ/AK/TT+ and if we are not dead/drawing to 2 outs we will be racing vs 8 outs) + open tight range utg + 3bets vs utg with tight range + if we r like half descent, with our stack we have big edge over the field and we dont need to call it off in this questionable spot (cos we need to win at showdown and we have 2 players to act behind us) which imo is only break even call

Originally posted by TheSenseman
And that fact impies what?

Just tighter ranges imo - I mean TT is still going to be super close but without information I'm going to fold. I mean we have to draw a line somewhere and I just don't want to squeeze out such a small edge if it exists for such high variance.

call unless LP is nit