"This is the greatest game in the world!" - CheckBop at NLSH

Originally posted by CheckBop
Its from a thread from twoplustwo all about verneer a cardrunners coach who committed a year to building a bankroll, starting from $100 through the micro's and documented his experiences and micro stakes strategy in the thread.
....
I came across it by a pdf file collected all the key startegy posts ~86pages. All pretty good stuff and specific to uNL.

Nice Blog - looking forward to keeping up with your adventures.

Re: above quote take a look here for the PDF [GUIDE] Essential reading...
It's a PS.com thread so I hope it is okay to post.

great blog mate, I read your posts and they show great enthusiasm and mindset.

At some point you said that it's essential to have a plan for a hand and avoid making illogical decisions ("Knowing at all times why we are making a given play" I think you said). That's one of the things I'm working on atm. I do not allow myself to make a single decision without me being able to provide a decent rationale for it. Struggling at times but getting better.

If you'd be interested we could sweat. Get back at me with your skype details if interested.

take care,
Matt

PS. we met on stars today

Hey Guys , thanks for the support.

@SPidey: Thanks for link, I have already read the PDF of verneers but did find Ryan fee's guide in that thread which I had been looking for previously. Bookmarked. Thanks Again.

@Matt: Nice to speak to you, yer planning out the hand and every decision is something I believe can add so much to your game and requires nothing other than focus and discipline, yet it is so easy to bypass it in the middle of a session. Something I have a lot to work on. Sweating could be great to help with this as it helps you be able to explain your thought process (I you have to make sure your buddy doesn't think you're a complete FISH!)

Add me on skype: joshpjp

Check.

Okay End of a good day, finishing up 5BI with good volume as well.

Hand Analysis

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;SB$3.02:21/29/0/3.0/33/0/-/100;Hero$5:///////;BU$5.11:21/24/24/-/100/33/-/0;[/tg]
0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q♣, 9♣
3 folds, BU raises to $0.20, SB calls $0.18, Hero calls $0.15.

Flop: ($0.60) J♠, 8♣, 6♣ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, BU bets $0.34, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.15, BU raises to $4.91 (All-In), Hero calls $3.65 (All-In), BU gets uncalled bet back (All-In).

Turn: ($10.20) Q♥
River: ($10.20) 4♦ (2 players)

Final Pot: $10.20

I like the flop c/r as he has a wide range from the btn even if he checks back with a deecent amount of it, folding out Khigh, Ahigh is good as well as randon Jx (would they fold) 8x 6x, all in his but range. Regardless we have a lot of equity with FD+GS+Overcard.

When he shoves at the time I felt committed I figured we need ~33% and our ~12 outer will come in often enough to show a profit. After a little calculation I find we need 35% equity to call and against a range of 66, 88, JJ, AA, KK, AcJc, J8 we have 40% which indicates a call. removing AA KK which are debateable we still have 37% however if J8 is removed it falls to 32.5%. I think the call is okay in general but what sort of range do you give villain here?

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;Hero$6.06:///////;BU$12.55:72/22/22/2.7/40/42/100/50;[/tg]
0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q♦, Q♣
3 folds, BU raises to $0.17, Hero raises to $0.50, BB folds, BU calls $0.33.

Flop: ($1.05) K♥, K♦, 6♣ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.62, BU calls $0.62.

Turn: ($2.29) A♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BU checks.

River: ($2.29) 2♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.62, BU calls $0.62.

Final Pot: $3.53

I decide not to barrel the turn as I feel I am not getting called by worse hands often with the A hitting my range real hard and I'm planning to c/f here as he only bets stronger hands and I don't give him credit for turning low pocket into a bluff.

When he checks back I think he is fairly weak, I decide to go for a small value bet on the river vs. his pocket pairs which I think are a large part of his range. Although I would like to have bet bigger (up to nearly $1) , I like the bet as if I check he will only bet better hands (Although i can't see many in this line) and check back worse that he will call a smallish bet with - 40% wtsd.

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;BB$6:59/36/8/1.6/30/22/67/50;CO$5:160/20/19/3.0/18/33/100/67;Hero$5.72:///////;[/tg]
0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BU with K♥, J♥
2 folds, CO raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.43, SB folds, BB calls $0.38, CO folds.

Flop: ($1.03) K♠, T♥, 6♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.61, BB calls $0.61.

Turn: ($2.25) 4♠ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($2.25) J♦ (2 players)
BB bets $0.85, Hero calls $0.85.

Final Pot: $3.95

This hand stumped me a little.

First off, pre flop although I said I want to keep aggressive and the initiative preflop by 3betting these types of hands, in hindsight in this case I prefer a call to play IP and entice the fishy BB (who ends up calling anyway) to call. (Mantra: Play as many hands vs. FISH as possible!)

Flop standard cbet. Turn my hand is fairly marginal, although I could reasonably value bet I'm not sure if I have 3 streets of value. For this reason I opt to check back and induce gutshots to bluff the river or to bet when he checks to me and have him call more of his Tx / pocket pairs which may fold to a turn bet. In a sense keeping his range wide as possible.

When the J hits the river giving me top two I was stuck between a call and raise. At the time my reasoning was pretty embarrassing, It was a speed table (curse speed tables) and as I was considering what hands he will call a raise with my timebank was running out so i though "calling is definitely +ev therefore I will 'bank' my ev and call, rather than risk a -ev raise". So weak I know!

In analysis I started to do some combinatrics calculations but struggled to get anywhere concrete (something to work on). The only hand I can see him calling a raise with that we beat is JT. He could have JJ, AQ (random flop peel?) although I would expect these to bet more on the river.

I think his range is so weak it is easy to get carried away and blindly raise the river but I think we just fold out all his better hands and rarely he will show up with a stronger hand and call or shove.

Final hand, too tired to post detailed thoughts but think I should just c/f river;

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;Hero$5:///////;CO$7.95:181/46/14/1.9/26/18/14/39;[/tg]
0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BB with K♠, T♠
MP3 folds, CO calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.20, CO calls $0.15.

Flop: ($0.42) T♣, 7♦, 6♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.26, CO calls $0.26.

Turn: ($0.94) J♥ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.52, CO calls $0.52.

River: ($1.98) Q♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.71, CO raises to $2.15, Hero folds, CO gets uncalled bet back.

Final Pot: $3.40

Discussion of all 4 hands would be interesting please post your thoughts.

Night, Check.

Just a short update for now, played another day of good volume, over 2k hands, happy with this and looking to get 40k hands in Sept although I'm not tied to it was moving to uni on 25th may tail the last week or so off but no worries.

Another day another winning session up nearly 2 BI's. More importantly - made my first ever 4 bet bluff (Yes 4bet bluff on NL5!)

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;SB$13.07:119/23/19/1.8/36/34/75/75;Hero$5.81:///////;[/tg]
0.02/0.05 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: Elephant 0.90 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BU with 9♣, 6♦
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.13, SB raises to $0.44, BB folds, Hero raises to $1.17, SB folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

Final Pot: $0.93

Maybe spew maybe calculated genius! Who cares it worked this time!

Off course I had some reads and slight metagame. First of all I'm opening 96o as BB is a total nit and TAG villain has been playing tight from sb hence I have been stealing freely. LAGy but okay from hero.

Villain's 3bet is 8%, not too out of line but we have showdwon evidence that he coldcalled AA in the BB vs CO open, he cold called TT and AK IP on separate occasions. So if he is cold calling this range it leaves his 3betting range very weak vs 4bet. I go for a relatively small 4bet leaving us needing villain to fold 65% of his 3betting range and given whats discussed I think this is feasible. nh imo.

Thoughts?

Study-wise I have just finished Volume 1 of BalugaWhale's Easy Game and found it very interesting. Will start reading it again tommorow !

CheckBRAG.

Also, graph since start of blog - 2k of NL2, rest NL5.

Racking up the winning days atm. Biggest volume day so far as well today at 2500 hands. Coincided with the biggest $$$ day as well at + ~8BI's!! Maybe I should play this long every day!

Also, reached the 10k hands milestone at NL5 and despite small sample fair to say I'm crushing at ~16bb/100.

Bankroll stands at roughly $170, grind a little more up to $200 for 20BI's at NL10 and then take a 4BI shot as planned. Could be fairly soon at this rate.

May post some hands from today's play tommorrow, cba now.

Check.

Hey CheckBop,
great blog mate. Love ya attitude and work ethic and it looks like you will make swift progress.
I am doing something very similar myself and was considering starting a blog but then i found this and realised there was no need as I can follow your progress and keep motivated.

You asked about the live poker scene in London:
on the whole, great, plenty happening. Large variety of good value affordable tournaments spread about - esp with Fox Poker Club re-opening (walking distance from Leicster Square.)

You'll always be able to find a cash game literally 24hrs a day at the Vic (Marble Arch/Edgeware Rd way) and several other places - though there isn't all that much dead money floating about during the twilight hours. It is hard however to find a 1/1 £200 max game in London that doesn't rake 10%, which is unfortunate but the rake drops as you step up limits though obviously requires a larger bankroll.

Sent you a request via Community mate if you want to Skype as mutual micro grinders at the foot of a mountain to climb or chat more about the London scene.

Cheers lad, thanks for the info.

Yer done a bit of research and seems to a fair few decent options. Don't really have much of a BR for cash atm unfortunately but maybe to donk around in some tournies could be fun!

Add me on skype, joshpjp.

Check.

Originally posted by CheckBop

Originally posted by mbml
i would have used photoshop to edit the age of my scanned ID card ♦

Yer i know right, seems the obvious line there but at the time i guess i panicked a little and by the time I try to do something about my account was blocked so I couldn't.

Same thing happend to me to. 16 and 400$ is alot of money. But when you win ~260$ on friday the 13e it's not a good sign

Originally posted by amplifyd
Oh and also that KK hand you have above imo is quite an easy bet/fold though I would bet less (like 1.7$)

Why is the KK an easy fold? I mean BB has a vpip of 41 and at the river he's getting 4.5:1 to call and i feel villan has a lot of hands in his range to justify the call, to simplify things, being a 4:1 fav or better is enough to justify the call and i bet you are in that spot, i dont think he's going to triple check it having a set (full house) OOP, he's going to atleast come out betting in 1 street. I mean with just adding JJ to his range at his river move, therefore considering his total range TT-JJ is giving us 2:1 which is enough to justify the call.

Originally posted by yankee92

Originally posted by amplifyd
Oh and also that KK hand you have above imo is quite an easy bet/fold though I would bet less (like 1.7$)

Why is the KK an easy fold? I mean BB has a vpip of 41 and at the river he's getting 4.5:1 to call and i feel villan has a lot of hands in his range to justify the call, to simplify things, being a 4:1 fav or better is enough to justify the call and i bet you are in that spot, i dont think he's going to triple check it having a set (full house) OOP, he's going to atleast come out betting in 1 street. I mean with just adding JJ to his range at his river move, therefore considering his total range TT-JJ is giving us 2:1 which is enough to justify the call.

I'd have to agree with amplifyd I'm afraid. c/c c/c c/r from an aggressive player is just the nuts like always. There is way more to his range than TT-JJ, slow played set is possible and I have definitely seen fishy LAGs make plays like this. Our one pair hand is no good.

Just re-reading Easy Game and a point made in the 3betting section struck me. It states;

Never call a 3bet OOP when 100BB deep and facing just one opponent

This is something I was thinking myself to some extent before reading the book as play in a 3bet pot without the initiative OOP just sucks. The reasoning given is along the lines of if you have enough equity against his 3betting range you are better of just shoving with your marginal hands of TT-JJ , AK , but leaning towards folding these in general.

I quite like the Idea as although exploitable at higher stakes could be successful at smaller stakes when people aren't going to be 3betting a ton anyway.

Just wondered some other players response to quite a bold generalized statement.

Check.

Never call a 3bet OOP when 100BB deep and facing just one opponent

This is something I was thinking myself to some extent before reading the book as play in a 3bet pot without the initiative OOP just sucks. The reasoning given is along the lines of if you have enough equity against his 3betting range you are better of just shoving with your marginal hands of TT-JJ , AK , but leaning towards folding these in general.

I would agree that flatting a 3bet OOP HU is generally very weak as it leads to check/folding all but the most favorable of board textures on the flop. (There are always exceptions obv ie; villain plays v passively post flop etc)

However, I don't think that 4bet shuving/folding are your only options when hoping to exploit a villains wide 3betting range, it appears very difficult to balance.

Example:
(Both players 100BB deep)
Hero opens 4xBB
Villain 3bets in pos to 12xBB
(blinds both fold - 1.5xBB)
Pot = 17.5BB

Hero response 1: 4bet all-in to 100BB
Villain has to call 88BB into pot of 117.5BB getting 1.3:1 on a call.
This narrows his calling range massively towards stronger holdings that have your 4-bet 'steals' in terrible shape.
You are risking far too much to fold out the % of his 3bet range that he is not willing to stack-off with and will loose $

Hero response 2: Folding
If you fold too regularly to villains with high 3bet percentages your range is too transparent when you do 4bet hands you wish to get all-in with (not too much of a crime at the micros as most players will not consider opponent hand ranges) however, you are failing to exploit your opponent and missing opportunities to make $

Solution:
Consider your 4bet bet sizing. You can 4 bet without committing yourself to stacking-off which will exploit the (greater) % of the times villain folds vs 4bet whilst risking less and leaving you the option to fold if they 5bet shuv. It also makes your 4bet range less transparent.
This is all considering villains only option to be fold/shuv. The small % of the time that they call then you have at least won the betting lead and can re-evaluate on the flop.

If we 4bet to a reasonable size (3x) in the given sitiuation , by the time he shoves over us we are going to be getting roughly 3:1 on our call, only needing 25% equity vs. his shoving range so I think 4bet folding would be bad.

vs villain shoving range off Ak, QQ+ we have this with all sorts of suited broadways, conected 1 or 2 gappers even.

If the dynamic changes say we raise to 2.5x, and villain 3bets to 7x then a 4bet/fold line become more feasible but still is very dubious at micro stakes.

No doubt we don't have to shove directly with hands like QQ+ because these are easier to play post flop when the 4bet is called, but the point I was making was that it's better to shove AK , JJ as they do become tricky to play in a 4bet pot when you miss with AK or when overcards flop to your JJ.

I've been thinking quite a lot about 3betting lately, and often when evaluating when and where to do so, I find conflicting arguments for both 3betting and cold-calling. I'm struggling to balance these arguments to find the optimal lines.

First off, I 3bet a relatively high % at 9%.

I appreciate that 3betting is a play very specific to individual situations so I'll discuss a few I've struggled with.

1. Loose Passive Fish limps, reasonable TAG/LAG Isolates.

a) Hero is IP
Here I find a conflict in that I feel like I want to 3bet lightly as bluff if we think the TAG is isolating a wide range we have a lot of fold equity. We also have to consider how he is responding to 3bets, if he is calling light we should lean more towards value hands and less 3bet bluffs. Alternatively if he is calling then giving up we can also 3bet bluff to take it away post flop, generally having a ton of FE across the two streets.

However, we also have to take into account the limper in two respects. Firstly, we should be concerned that he will cc our 3bet inducing the TAG to call and leaving us in inflated multi-way pot with our light 3bets or bluffs. Second, if we a reasonably strong hand there is merit in cold calling to induce the fishy player to overcall so we get to play a pot with the fish where we make our money if we expect the TAG to play fairly well post flop there is not much value in playing HU vs him.

Conclusion: If the TAG/LAG plays tight vs 3bet cold call all hands we want to play including suited all suited broadways, pocket pairs, suited connectors, ATo, KQo. If TAG/LAG is calling more freely to 3bets , bump it up with TT+, AJs+, AQo+.

b)Hero is OOP
Obviously the same sort of considerations are going to have be taken into account as discussed above. However, being out of position I think calling has less value and lean more towards 3betting. The disadvantage of playing out of position is decreased by playing in a 3bet pot and with the initiative. We can 3bet then cbet if HU vs TAG, by this point the stack/pot ratio has decreased significantly so that if we have a hand we can get it in on the turn, or give up if we don't. Again the significant argument against this is the worry of the limper calling. I think we need to lean much towards value hands vs a retard 60/5 type player but can 3bet more thinly with bluffs etc if the limper is more weak/tight/passive type.

Conclusion: Limper and/or TAG likely to call 3bet raise with AT+, 99+ , KQ. If villains are tighter and we rate to have deecent fold equity over 3 streets raise with the similar range to calling in case a) - suited broadways, pocketpairs, suited conectors, AT+, KQ.

Right that took longer than I expected, there are a few other situations I have thoughts/ am unsure on and will most likely post them later.

Would be really interested to here other peoples thoughts on this situations and my evaluation/conclusions for range for them.

Please comment any thoughts and create more discussion!

Thanks, Check3bet!

OOOPS dupe post

I'm liking your blog mate it provides good learning opportunities!!

Originally posted by CheckBop
If we 4bet to a reasonable size (3x) in the given sitiuation , by the time he shoves over us we are going to be getting roughly 3:1 on our call, only needing 25% equity vs. his shoving range so I think 4bet folding would be bad.

What if we 4bet it 2.5x? We oR 4xBB, he 3bets to 12xBB, we 4bet to 30xBB. If he shoves, we're getting 131.5/70 = 1.8:1, which is not so committing at all.
Besides, our opponents will rarely realize that we're somewhat committed now, so have to call if we've even got 33% equity. Imo a mere 4bet will ring an alarm bell and an average NL5 PokerStars player will only push their premiums.
One side note to that - you have to be careful to do it primarily vs. players who know there's a 'fold' button next to the 'call' one.

And if you're really worried about being even slightly committed (in the above case you just need 35% equity for the call to be break-even), you can start opening 3xBB in Late Position. Mbml in his video "Perfecting Pre-flop Play" (well worth a watch) says that you'll have a weaker range in LP in general, so you want to play smaller pots. What's more, smaller open raises are often unconsciously treated as signalling weaker hands, so you'll be getting more calls; and because you'll often play in position - you like that.

If it comes to your "Loose Passive Fish limps, TAG/LAG isolates" I think you'd very often find yourself in a spot where you'd play an inflated pot with a weak range vs. a calling station (which is what most loose-passives are). The only spot where to me it would make sense is where the player being isolated would be a weak-tight player (or a loose-passive who is not a calling station) who would often open-limp/fold hands like JTs, or limp/call small pockets and c/f the flop (generally play fit or fold).

I wonder what you think. I might be wrong, very wrong in fact, but I want to get a discussion going as I need to improve!!

cheers,
Matt

Originally posted by CheckBop
1. Bet/Bet/Check-call
2. Bet/Bet/Check-raise
3. Bet/Bet/Check-fold
4. Bet/Bet/Bet-fold
5. Bet/Bet/Bet-call

When I first saw them I was embarrassed because I couldn't come up with anything right on the spot. This suggested to me that I am probably a weaker player than I think I am and (probably slightly unconsciously) avoided this exercise.
But now I figured I'd stand to the test:

1.
a) I'd probably do that against a thinking, aggressive opponent vs. whom I have history of 2 barrel bluffs. I'd bet my strong hand on two streets and check it on the river to induce him to try and take a stab/bluff a missed draw.
b) I'd do that vs. a weak opponent once an obvious draw on the river completes. I'd bet two streets for value and on the River I'd check it with the intention of c/f but if his bet was be sufficiently small (giving me the right odds) I'd call it.

2.
a) I'd do that vs. a weak opponent once a draw completes on the river and makes my strong hand a monster. Ex. a card comes on the river which completes a flush but at the same time gives me a full house.

3. 1b but the bet is too big for me to call; or a failed double barrel bluff.

4. a) Tough one. Can't think of anything! Only situations that I can come up with are extremely rare laydowns... Ex. You've got a set of QQs and on the turn there comes a King, and the River is an Ace; and there's no way your opponent called the flop with AK and his range is ultra strong so it can only be a stronger set (or a straight). Dunno. Sounds stupid. Help?

5. Monster. I.e I flopped a nut straight and my opponent has two-pair or a set.

Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
I'm liking your blog mate it provides good learning opportunities!!

Originally posted by CheckBop
If we 4bet to a reasonable size (3x) in the given sitiuation , by the time he shoves over us we are going to be getting roughly 3:1 on our call, only needing 25% equity vs. his shoving range so I think 4bet folding would be bad.

What if we 4bet it 2.5x? We oR 4xBB, he 3bets to 12xBB, we 4bet to 30xBB. If he shoves, we're getting 131.5/70 = 1.8:1, which is not so committing at all.
Besides, our opponents will rarely realize that we're somewhat committed now, so have to call if we've even got 33% equity. Imo a mere 4bet will ring an alarm bell and an average NL5 PokerStars player will only push their premiums.
One side note to that - you have to be careful to do it primarily vs. players who know there's a 'fold' button next to the 'call' one.

And if you're really worried about being even slightly committed (in the above case you just need 35% equity for the call to be break-even), you can start opening 3xBB in Late Position. Mbml in his video "Perfecting Pre-flop Play" (well worth a watch) says that you'll have a weaker range in LP in general, so you want to play smaller pots. What's more, smaller open raises are often unconsciously treated as signalling weaker hands, so you'll be getting more calls; and because you'll often play in position - you like that.

If it comes to your "Loose Passive Fish limps, TAG/LAG isolates" I think you'd very often find yourself in a spot where you'd play an inflated pot with a weak range vs. a calling station (which is what most loose-passives are). The only spot where to me it would make sense is where the player being isolated would be a weak-tight player (or a loose-passive who is not a calling station) who would often open-limp/fold hands like JTs, or limp/call small pockets and c/f the flop (generally play fit or fold).

I wonder what you think. I might be wrong, very wrong in fact, but I want to get a discussion going as I need to improve!!

cheers,
Matt

Yer sure with smaller bet sizing a 4bet/fold line becomes more feasible, if you see the 96o hand somewhere above I made a 4bet bluff there obviously with the intention of folding.

I do vary my bet sizing preflop already both dependant on position and other players at the table. My standards vary from 4x utg to 2.5x otb. But also say i'm utg/mp with tight players behind and a whale in the blinds i'll happily bump strong hands up to 5x or more to get the fish HU IP and rain in the money.