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[Closed] How to crush 2/4c 6-max?

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c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

Originally posted by conall88
what you can play profitably from UTG, and what someone more experienced can play profitably UTG can differ.

Advising players starting/new to NL4-5 to open from UTG with 79s etc... is not smart, given that NL4-5 is absolutely shipped with hyper-lagtard fish. Playing mid pair/mid kicker hands from OOP (knowing there's gonna be aggressive caller 80% of the time) doesn't make sense if you want to just play solid and earn steady profit to get the hang of NL4-5.

For me it's always like this. I earn 12$+ on a good streak in NL4, or by grinding NL2.

I start a session in NL4, and it goes like this.

AA - busted by AQo.

KK - busted by AQo.

QQ - busted by AKo.

JJ - busted by AKo.

AQo - I flop an ace, fish hits double pair that turns into full house (-1$ before I got away)

Oh, I lost everything I earned by grinding hours in less than 300 hands. Awesome. I'm always ahead with my AI's, but it's just impossible to earn profit due to variance.


Variance. Been playing 20k hands and I'm still losing 200bb's. Even 100k hands is sometimes not enough.


LudiCoka
Joined: 02.06.2009

I had 35k hands breakeven stretch on NL10 SH. Then 3 days in a row +10 BI. Ended up with NL10 having 5.7BB/100 in 95k hands.


c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

I'm just literally wondering what's the fargin point in even playing NL4, it's just too full of retarded fish to make any profit.

I can hop on to NL2 FR anytime and come out with at least +5$ in one or two hours with practically zero variance.

I've lost 3 days of grind today in NL4. 20k hands, BB/100 1.4, it just doesn't make any sense to keep playing when the variance is completely retarded.

Here's another fine piece. Had aces cracked twice in about 15 mins.

$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

Known players:
[tg]BB$1.09:///////;MP3 (Hero)$4.00:///////;CO$5.65:///////;BU$1.86:///////;SB$2.16:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A:c, A:s.
Hero raises to $0.16, 3 folds, BB calls $0.12.

Flop: ($0.34) J:s, K:h, K:c (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.24, BB raises to $0.93(All-In), Hero calls $0.69.

Turn: ($2.2) J:c (2 players)

River: ($2.2) 6:d (2 players)

Final Pot: $2.2.
Results follow:

Hero shows two pairs, aces and kings(A:c A:s).
BB shows a full-house, jacks full of kings(7:d J:d).

BB wins with a full-house, jacks full of kings(7:d J:d).

I think I'm just gonna stop playing NL4 all together and grind to 300$ in NL2 and move to NL10.


c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (2 handed)

Known players:
[tg]BB$4.11:///////;SB (Hero)$4.00:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is SB with A:h, K:s.
BB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.16, BB calls $0.12.

Flop: ($0.32) 7:c, 6:c, K:c (2 players)
Hero bets $0.92, BB calls $0.92.

Turn: ($2.16) 9:d (2 players)
Hero raises to $2.92, BB calls $2.92.

River: ($8) 4:c (2 players)

Final Pot: $8.
Results follow:

BB shows a flush, king high(J:c J:s).
Hero shows a pair of kings(A:h K:s).

BB wins with a flush, king high(J:c J:s).

_cool:

I quit!


noisecore
Joined: 13.04.2010

Originally posted by c0wking

KK - busted by AQo.

QQ - busted by AKo.

JJ - busted by AKo.

1) 70-30

2) flip

3) flip


c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

Originally posted by noisecore

1) 92-8

2) 70-30

3) 55-45

4) 55-45

Fixed it for you.

Btw that equates to 0.4% probability of losing all four in a row.

Anything else?

To boot it all, when I'm not getting my 90% lead completely crushed, fish keep hitting runner-runners to split the pot.

Preflop: Hero is SB with A:c, Q:d.
MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $0.16, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.14, BB folds.

Flop: ($0.36) 5:d, 2:c, Q:c (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $0.26, Hero raises to $0.80, MP3 calls $0.54.

Turn: ($1.96) 2:h (2 players)
Hero bets $1.24, MP3 calls $1.24.

River: ($4.44) Q:h (2 players)
Hero bets $2.11, MP3 raises to $2.61, Hero calls $0.50.

Final Pot: $9.66.
Results follow:

Hero shows a full-house, queens full of twos(A:c Q:d).
MP3 shows a full-house, queens full of twos(T:h Q:s).

Hero wins with a full-house, queens full of twos(A:c Q:d).
MP3 wins with a full-house, queens full of twos(T:h Q:s).


bennisboy
Joined: 11.04.2011

hyper aggressive calling stations

....

Lol wut?


c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

Originally posted by bennisboy
hyper aggressive calling stations

....

Lol wut?

Means players who call anything like a calling station, but if you check, they go aggro to the max.


bennisboy
Joined: 11.04.2011

Originally posted by c0wking

Originally posted by bennisboy
hyper aggressive calling stations

....

Lol wut?

Means players who call anything like a calling station, but if you check, they go aggro to the max.

Then they should be super easy to get money from if you play slightly tight, i.e only stay in the hand if you have a hand.

This whole thread is basically you saying you're not good enough to beat bad players but that it isn't your fault...


c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

Originally posted by bennisboy
Then they should be super easy to get money from if you play slightly tight, i.e only stay in the hand if you have a hand.

This whole thread is basically you saying you're not good enough to beat bad players but that it isn't your fault...

Mr. fantastic poker player has failed to read the thread.

Go play against Phil Ivey.


Originally posted by c0wking
$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (2 handed)

Known players:
[tg]BB$4.11:///////;SB (Hero)$4.00:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is SB with A:h, K:s.
BB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.16, BB calls $0.12.

Flop: ($0.32) 7:c, 6:c, K:c (2 players)
Hero bets $0.92, BB calls $0.92.

Turn: ($2.16) 9:d (2 players)
Hero raises to $2.92, BB calls $2.92.

River: ($8) 4:c (2 players)

Final Pot: $8.
Results follow:

BB shows a flush, king high(J:c J:s).
Hero shows a pair of kings(A:h K:s).

BB wins with a flush, king high(J:c J:s).

_cool:

I quit!

Overbet on the flop is not good, IMO


Originally posted by patszerdonk

Originally posted by c0wking
$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (2 handed)

Known players:
[tg]BB$4.11:///////;SB (Hero)$4.00:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is SB with A:h, K:s.
BB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.16, BB calls $0.12.

Flop: ($0.32) 7:c, 6:c, K:c (2 players)
Hero bets $0.92, BB calls $0.92.

Turn: ($2.16) 9:d (2 players)
Hero raises to $2.92, BB calls $2.92.

River: ($8) 4:c (2 players)

Final Pot: $8.
Results follow:

BB shows a flush, king high(J:c J:s).
Hero shows a pair of kings(A:h K:s).

BB wins with a flush, king high(J:c J:s).

_cool:

I quit!

Overbet on the flop is not good, IMO

+1 you are not even doing well against JJc! Like 55-60% i guess.


bennisboy
Joined: 11.04.2011

Originally posted by c0wking

Originally posted by bennisboy
Then they should be super easy to get money from if you play slightly tight, i.e only stay in the hand if you have a hand.

This whole thread is basically you saying you're not good enough to beat bad players but that it isn't your fault...

Mr. fantastic poker player has failed to read the thread.

Go play against Phil Ivey.

Please point me to where I said I was a good player?

I play NL10 and I am slightly winning player over a relatively small sample size, that's all, no more no less.

But you have spent the whole thread (and yes I read it all) complaining about how you can't win because people play bad poker. You want to play against those players because if you just learn how to play poker and capitalise on their weakness, then it is easy money.

You moan about how you get your 80% cracked 40-45% of the time? lol
You moan about losing coinflips (45-55 is considered to be a coinflip if you watch poker or read articles on it)
Your JJ or QQ has the same chance of beating AK as you would have if you'd shipped against AK with 22. Shipping with JJ is almost always going to be a coinflip at best

You ask in your first post if there is one book you can read to kill it? No there isn't, you have to study and work on your game. There is no one-stop shop for instantly killing poker. It takes time and effort and learning how to capitalise on people's weaknesses, not moaning about people's weaknesses making it too hard for you to win...


c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

Originally posted by bennisboy
But you have spent the whole thread (and yes I read it all) complaining about how you can't win because people play bad poker. You want to play against those players because if you just learn how to play poker and capitalise on their weakness, then it is easy money.

And if you didn't fail reading so badly, you'd understand that's exactly what I AM doing. You don't think it's exploiting their weaknesses when I get them to put their entire stack in when I have 70-90%+ edge?

You don't even understand what you're talking about...

Originally posted by bennisboy
You moan about how you get your 80% cracked 40-45% of the time? lol
You moan about losing coinflips (45-55 is considered to be a coinflip if you watch poker or read articles on it)
Your JJ or QQ has the same chance of beating AK as you would have if you'd shipped against AK with 22. Shipping with JJ is almost always going to be a coinflip at best

No shit sherlock (it's a coinflip!), but again, you failed reading comprehension. It's 0.4% chance to lose all 4 in a row, but I'm not surprised you don't know about basic mathematics. That's like rolling a 200 sided dice once, and hitting 101.

It's a coinflip! My new slogan when I lose with 90% edge 3x in a row.

Originally posted by MathhNes
+1 you are not even doing well against JJc! Like 55-60% i guess.

It's more like 80% to my favor, which is called value betting (betting for value when you're ahead you know?), because if a club doesn't hit on the turn (which is super easy to get away from), I have him pot committed with great odds for his entire stack (fish can't fold on that spot), giving me rather good implied odds.

That was a great play (and you have to be an idiot not to realize it).

I lose 90c 1/4 times (on my read), that gives me 2.7$ win on the turn alone, because I knew the fish would go after the flush draw with terrible pot odds (I put him on KxJc or KxQc). A.K.A exploiting your opponent 101.


bennisboy
Joined: 11.04.2011

Originally posted by c0wking

Originally posted by bennisboy
But you have spent the whole thread (and yes I read it all) complaining about how you can't win because people play bad poker. You want to play against those players because if you just learn how to play poker and capitalise on their weakness, then it is easy money.

And if you didn't fail reading so badly, you'd understand that's exactly what I AM doing. You don't think it's exploiting their weaknesses when I get them to put their entire stack in when I have 70-90%+ edge?

You don't even understand what you're talking about...

Originally posted by bennisboy
You moan about how you get your 80% cracked 40-45% of the time? lol
You moan about losing coinflips (45-55 is considered to be a coinflip if you watch poker or read articles on it)
Your JJ or QQ has the same chance of beating AK as you would have if you'd shipped against AK with 22. Shipping with JJ is almost always going to be a coinflip at best

No shit sherlock (it's a coinflip!), but again, you failed reading comprehension. It's 0.4% chance to lose all 4 in a row, but I'm not surprised you don't know about basic mathematics. That's like rolling a 200 sided dice once, and hitting 101.

It's a coinflip! My new slogan when I lose with 90% edge 3x in a row.

Haha no I know nothing about maths, except for getting straight As in my A-levels at school (In Physics, Maths and Economics) and then doing Economics at university, which is basically all advanced maths (Calculus, probabilities and statistical interpretation) and working at an investment bank in futures and options.... yeah I know nothing about probabilities or maths in general....

Do you know what variance is? Do you know how probabilities work?
That 0.4% chance doesn't mean it can't happen, it in fact means it will happen in the long-run. Probabilities are a long-run average, meaning that over an infinite sample-size, that result will occur in 0.4% of the outcomes, so it will happen. There is a link that has been posted on this site many times about probability, and how people struggle to grasp it's rather variance high short-term outcomes.

Have you seen the Derren Brown clip where he flips a coin ten times in a row and gets heads every time, despite the actual probability of each flip being 50/50? You know how he did it? By filming himself flipping a coin ten times in a row, over and over again until it eventually happened, because by the law of probabilities it will.

You should be happy that you get it in with a strong edge, because in the long-run, that is where you make money. Yeah I understand how frustrating it is when you lose in those circumstances, but you need to realise that you got it in well, and be focused on that, not the actual outcome.

Also the hands you show in this thread... how do you expect to learn and improve by posting your bad beat stories? You should be posting hands where you struggled to make the right decision, where you made a bad call for a certain reason, or where you didn't extract maximum value, and be asking for feedback on those so that you can evaluate similar situations better in future.

The feedback you would get for posting those hands where people can actually evaluate your play and give opinions on what they would have done in the situation would help you much more than people going "bad-beat, so what?"


bennisboy
Joined: 11.04.2011

Originally posted by c0wking

Originally posted by MathhNes
+1 you are not even doing well against JJc! Like 55-60% i guess.

It's like 60-40 to my favor, which is called value betting (betting for value when you're ahead you know?), because if a club doesn't hit on the turn (which is super easy to get away from), I have him pot committed with great odds for his entire stack (fish can't fold on that spot), giving me rather good implied odds.

That was a great play (and you have to be an idiot not to realize it).

I lose 90c 1/4 times, that gives me 2.7$ win on the turn alone, because I knew the fish would go after the flush draw with terrible pot odds (I put him on KxJc or KxQc). A.K.A exploiting your opponent 101.

...I suggest you read MathhNes' blog before you call him an idiot.
When he evaluates your play, you should definitely listen


"You are a very good player. Dont bother to whatever people tell you!"

I hope this is what you want to hear in this thread. Good Luck and bye


c0wking
Joined: 02.12.2010

Originally posted by bennisboy
...I suggest you read MathhNes' blog before you call him an idiot.
When he evaluates your play, you should definitely listen

The fact is, what he said WAS idiotic (even from a newbie perspective). He's talking about having 55-66% lead (which is completely false, given this is not AI situation and doesn't cover both streets).

Originally posted by patszerdonk
"You are a very good player. Dont bother to whatever people tell you!"

I hope this is what you want to hear in this thread. Good Luck and bye

I just backed up what I said with mathematics and logic. It's something I've noticed people have hard time coping with, when they're proven wrong by either one over the internet.

That hand was pure maximizing value and exploiting opponent for maximum profit, and then I have people who don't even realize it giving me advice about "capitalizing on people's weaknesses".


bennisboy
Joined: 11.04.2011

Originally posted by c0wking

Originally posted by bennisboy
...I suggest you read MathhNes' blog before you call him an idiot.
When he evaluates your play, you should definitely listen

The fact is, what he said WAS idiotic (even from a newbie perspective). He's talking about having 55-66% lead (which is completely false, given this is not AI situation and doesn't cover both streets).

You don't need to be all in to have a lead dude. It's called equity...

And what he said wasn't idiotic.

You're overbet on the flop was idiotic, you put in 3x the pot? You could already have been drawing dead! You are isolating yourself against a better range of hands than your own, there are a very high number of bad cards that can come and leave you dead.

But hey you're clearly a brilliant player, so don't bother to study or improve