Skip to forum
New rules for Waiti...
 
Notifications
Clear all

New rules for Waiting Lists

18 Posts
4 Users
4 Reactions
3,238 Views
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010
Really Annoying!

I don't know if this applies to all games.

If you go to the cash game tables, and you want to play or, say, NL 25 5-Card Draw and all the tables are full, you see this warning

Sure, seat me while I wait -- but there's a catch:
The table they seat me at has one other player there -- so I'm forced to play 5-Card Draw heads-up.
So what? I hear you cry.
Well the problem is that hand distribution is such that you both lose to rake.
So my tactics are:
:diamond:  run out the clock on every hand.
:diamond:  bet large in position, and 3Bet OOP more than normal.

Why not just sit out?
Good question:

So if you sit out -- even if it is because you bust and had to reload -- you lose your place in the waiting list.

If you are playing at a similar table, then you must continue to play at that table. If you leave it, you're removed from all waiting lists.

The probably isn't any big deal for Hold'em players, but for both NL 5-Card Draw and PL Omaha Hi/Lo both times I had to join a table I never would have played without this restriction


Reply
Quote
17 replies
Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Yes, I noticed those rules a few months ago. I first thought they were introduced to comply with some new local gaming regulations, which have tightened up quite a bit in my area and led to other "lovely" things like a four table limit and a 24h immediate self-exclusion button that doesn't ask for confirmation and could therefore potentially lead to some serious misclicks. But it looks like this is a general change.

I assume it was introduced as another measure against so-called "bumhunting", like some of those infamous policies on other networks. Much like it seems to be in your case, though, the only thing it achieves is that it makes me decide not to play at all in those situations.


Reply
Quote
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

If there is an immediate exclusion button I haven't found it yet.
I'm doomed to find it when finding it accidentally will do the most harm.


Reply
Quote
Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
If there is an immediate exclusion button I haven't found it yet.
I'm doomed to find it when finding it accidentally will do the most harm.

Don't worry, that feature is limited to players from Germany, just like the four table limit I mentioned.

Gambling regulations have tightened up this year, so Pokerstars had to comply and introduce things like these. It sucks, but at least it's possible to keep playing normally apart from these changes. Other regions have been affected much more severely by similar kinds of regulation, so it definitely could have been worse.


Reply
Quote
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by Harrier88
Don't worry, that feature is limited to players from Germany, just like the four table limit I mentioned.

Gambling regulations have tightened up this year, so Pokerstars had to comply and introduce things like these. It sucks, but at least it's possible to keep playing normally apart from these changes. Other regions have been affected much more severely by similar kinds of regulation, so it definitely could have been worse.


Reply
Quote

Anyone remember when poker sites used to do things for the benefit of the players that were fun and enjoyable ?


Reply
Quote
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by RedsYNWA
Anyone remember when poker sites used to do things for the benefit of the players that were fun and enjoyable ?

Poker sites did things to make more money.
At one time doing things that were also fun, and also had a benefit to the players also made them money.

In this case, as Harrier88 points out, this is done to comply with regulations, and partly because there is a perception that it will stop bumhunting. However if there are only 4 tables for a game, then there can't be bumhunting.


Reply
Quote
Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Poker sites did things to make more money.
At one time doing things that were also fun, and also had a benefit to the players also made them money.

In this case, as Harrier88 points out, this is done to comply with regulations, and partly because there is a perception that it will stop bumhunting. However if there are only 4 tables for a game, then there can't be bumhunting.

While I strongly disagree with the regulations that force them, I can at least see that the four table limit and immediate self-exclusion button make sense for what they're trying to achieve.
Though I would still much prefer a simple confirmation window over this "one click is final" approach. Are many of those so-called "problem gamblers" really going to change their mind about self-exclusion because they have to click "Yes" once? Still, that was explicitly part of the regulations that Pokerstars had to comply with, according to their website.

As for that new waitlist policy, I can't say it makes sense. First of all, this very concept of "bumhunting" is dubious to begin with in that sense. A certain degree of table selection and looking for weaker opponents is just a basic part of positive expectation gambling, and some poker sites have twisted themselves in knots trying to come up with what counts as unfair "predatory" behavior and what doesn't.

But even if we all agree that even those mild forms of trying to take advantage of less skilled opponents are predatory and should be stopped, do those rules really do a good job of enforcing them? There is still nothing to prevent players from targeting someone on a table that is not already filled, and are waitlists really primarily used to claim your spot on a fishy table, to the point that we need to introduce little stumbling blocks like this? In mixed games in particular, this is lethal, as Vorpal alluded to, because there simply isn't always a table available for you, and you often have to wait your spot to be able to get into the game at all. Almost seems like trying to prevent punctures in your car by removing all the tires, you're severely restricting one important functionality trying to prevent one minor problem.

Note, however, that it was my own theory that this was introduced to combat bumhunting, and it's possible that they had something else in mind entirely. It's still the only explanation I can think of that makes any kind of sense to me. Well, actually it doesn't make sense, but I wouldn't know how they could possibly have justified it otherwise.

As for RedsYNWA's comment, we mostly just have to accept that the world of online poker has changed and will continue to change, and that the boom has been over for a while. 6-12 years ago or so, it may have been in the poker room's best interest to introduce all those benefits for the average grinder that make us yearn for the "good old days", but they must follow the money, which doesn't always lead them into a direction that makes sense from our point of view. The only thing we can do is to adapt in the best way we can.


Reply
Quote

I don't think your going to stop a problem gambler from gambling with a self exclusion button it's akin to putting a button on a bookies door that says push if you don't want to enter.


Reply
Quote

Below is GG's new changes for UK players on deposits.Not that it effects me as i don't deposit more than that anyway.But it does aggravate me to be told how much of my own money i can spend and on what.You can jump through hoops to up the limit i guess but lets see if the restrictions are eased after covid i have my doubts.And a deposit limit like this solves nothing anyway there's more than one poker site for people to deposit money on.But it goes over the top because these are not rules or laws that have to be followed let alone followed to the tee they are just guidelines.

Please note that the deposit limit for all UK players will be set at $200, $400, $1,300 (daily, weekly, monthly) from 15 December 2020. If you have a lower custom deposit limit, your limit will remain as is.

This change is as a result of updated guidelines from the UKGC designed to better protect players during the COVID-19 pandemic. The purpose of this request is to make sure that you aren’t gambling beyond your means
If you wish to have your monthly deposit limits set beyond the limit, please provide us one of the below documents;
a. Three (3) months’ payslips
b. Most recent P60
c. Annual tax returns
d. Three (3) months' bank statements showing money in/out
In addition, please indicate the new daily/weekly/monthly limit you want to have. The new limit should be based on your affordable income given in the document provided.


Reply
Quote
arthurbentley
Joined: 12.10.2010

The great scientist Isaac Newton posited in his third law of motion that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When Pokerstars had normal waiting lists bumhunters could be found quickly by virtue of their names all sat in a long queue waiting to join a loose table. Now that is no longer possible to do. The new system gives a bigger advantage to HUD users.


Reply
Quote
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by arthurbentley
The great scientist Isaac Newton posited in his third law of motion that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. When Pokerstars had normal waiting lists bumhunters could be found quickly by virtue of their names all sat in a long queue waiting to join a loose table. Now that is no longer possible to do. The new system gives a bigger advantage to HUD users.

I used to think it amusing that there would be several open tables, of NL 2, yet one with a waiting list 10 players long.

Another sign of bumhunting happened to me today:
There were 5 or 6 of us at a PLO8 5 table.
The instant I sat out, the others all left.

So I'm the fish?
:mdr::mdr::mdr:

There are several times I might have appeared as one I suppose...


Reply
Quote
Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

As I mentioned before, it was nothing but a theory on my part that this so-called feature was introduced to combat "predatory" behavior, but I have searched for an official explanation by a Pokerstars representative, and it turns out that this exactly what they had in mind.

Read the whole thing here.
But don't expect them to talk too much sense.


Reply
Quote
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

That blog post is date September 2020
Odd that I should only notice this now.

I have sent feedback to PokerStars to the effect that if there are no available similar tables, I should be permitted to join the waiting list.
Alternatively, the problem could be solved by having the waiting player join the waiting list for all full tables at once.


Reply
Quote
Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Alternatively, the problem could be solved by having the waiting player join the waiting list for all full tables at once.

Or by not introducing any of this crap in the first place.


Reply
Quote
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by Harrier88

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Alternatively, the problem could be solved by having the waiting player join the waiting list for all full tables at once.

Or by not introducing any of this crap in the first place.


Reply
Quote

Auto seating people at random tables seems to solve the problem and i like GG's approach being able to hop tables to another random table it's useful for when tables break.I don't table select anyway so im perfectly happy being auto seated but i do want the ability to hop tables if the tables start to break up.


Reply
Quote
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Agreed
Be sure to send your suggestions to PokerStars
The more voices chime in, the more likely there will be action.
(maybe)


Reply
Quote