hello guys:)
-what do you think the highest limit that every one (average guys) can beat it with the right hard work and dedication,and when the talent or gifted mind ..start to affect beating the game?? (like ofc any one can beat nl5 and only gifted mind guys can be the top 10 players in the world)
( PS:questions from Nl25 learner/grinder 
)
Hey jackwilder077,
first of all i would politely suggest you to change the topic of your thread. I can do it for you if you want no problem. I am sure you will get better answers and more views if you change it to something like "The highest limit that an average guy can beat". "Hi" is just not to inviting :f_biggrin:.
I was thinking a lot about what you are asking. Currently i am at the same point of career like you. I am grinding NL25 and trying to improve myself. The competition is really strong these days and i think an average guy like myself can beat NL100 with dedication and hard work. But at NL200 things are getting complicated i guess. Every limit has higher percentage of good players and less percentage of fishes so we have to exploit little edges we have over other regs. I hope i will be there someday but tbh i am not 100% sure
Good luck.
To start out with i was gonna say nl200. But i think i agree with Alan.
When you say avg guy, i think all avg guys is very good a something specific. It all comes down to what the avg guy spend his time on.
Steve jobs was a avg guy that got fired from his job as a manager if i recall correctly.
Michael Jordan was a avg guy that got kicked out of his shool team in basket.
The danish guy that invented the lightbulb, was an avg guy that wouldnt give up until he succeeded.
If you dont give up, but work harder everytime someone either dont believe in u. Or if things go wrong, and instead use it, u can be an avg guy beating nl400k. Or even crushing the bad regs in macau.
This is 1000 avg guys playing 100k hands of poker:
Who is the most lucky 1 on that picture? The one that won the most? Or the one that lost the most? Think about it.
The one that lost the most, is the one that logically is going to study most.
But the one that won the most, and sees blood, and are going to study even more than the guy that lost the most, is the "talented" one
Once you put in hard work, you are no longer average. Average is lazy, so an average person would be a losing poker player at most stakes. 
Talent and IQ are overrated. With the right approach and hard work (and not being lazy like manu said), you can get very far. Maybe not in the top 5 players in the world, but definitely higher than NL200 with average IQ/talent (if you're not super stupid).
Originally posted by Schnitzelfisch
Talent and IQ are overrated. With the right approach and hard work (and not being lazy like manu said), you can get very far. Maybe not in the top 5 players in the world, but definitely higher than NL200 with average IQ/talent (if you're not super stupid).
Graph please?
Read this post on 2p2, it's about going pro, it does not completely answer your question, but it is in the area
It's a pretty simple equation
Give your happiness a level 1-10
How happy are you with being a poker player? (1-10)
How happy are you doing the alternative job (1-10)
How much you stand to make in poker ?
How much you make with the alternative job?
Compare the $$salaries-
Does the difference in happiness level makeup for the $$?
If you're happier with poker+your earnings is higher, answer is obvious.
No one should have to grind micros for that many years. Treat your poker like a job.
If you're playing 8h a day ; I don't see why you shouldn't have any problem at all.
You're either playing with high winrate/low tables; or lower winrate and tons of tables.
If your wr is high there isn't reason why a 5bb/100 at 50nl can't beat 100nl. Same applies 2-5,5-10,10-25nl.
If you're stuck under 50nl for a long period of time, bad have tried your best; poker's probably not for you as a career.
If you're spending 8h a day on (playing/getting better) I don't see why you shouldn't be able to move up quick enough to make a living.
If you're not spending 8h a day on it;
(Why are you trying to make a career out of a profession where like 20% are winners, and trying to use this profession(poker) to replace 8h regular jobs?)
Be realistic all the big winners started out putting in lots of time studying learning and playing. At higher stakes, the regs your playing with depend on this for living.. If you're not putting in that effort why do you expect to be them?
The biggest reason people don't make it out of micros is just lazy, gambling , mental issues.
Don't fool yourself ever.
Don't expect to start poker from scratch whiff 2h studying a week, play 3h a day and expect to be as good as grinders at ssnl/micros.
Majority of guys I know at 100-400nl spend well over 3-4h a week discussing hands with regs and getting better. People such as priidix/meleab/Baebba/me put in well over 30-40h a week playing .
It's not easy. But what's the alternative?
Coaching +vid sub + books are gonna be cheaper than college tuition.
When I was in university last year I spent nearly 22h a week in lectures, 3-6hours in labs, and well over 10-20h a week.
After 4h years of schooling I stand to make about 60-75k"starting".
This is also 4years of school expenses and opportunity cost.
If you put as much effort in poker as you do in college or any education program I don't see a single reason anyone should be stuck in the "making a living in micros" micros is and should be a stepping stone.
You don't see college students "ponder" how they're financial future working at mcdonalds as a summer job.
Treat micros as : schooling/training before an actual job(ssnl) .
I also think NL200 in the long turn. NL100 is deff beatable but its not easy like a school exam where you have study few weeks before exam to make the exam. It takes time, experience, review, study, playing etc to reach there.
Originally posted by martinemem
This is 1000 avg guys playing 100k hands of poker:
That graph made me stop and think the first time I saw it.
What if I was the bottom guy?
Then I realized WHY poker is a skill game.
The graph shows 100K hands TAKEN TO SHOWDOWN -- in other words it illustrates the cards' variance.
We typically take less than 30% of our hands to showdown, and typically win a bit more than half of those -- that is the skill.
The skill in poker comes in knowing when to play the marginal hands, what marginal hands to play and how to play them.
Winning with AA is easy -- the fish do it all the time -- and requires only luck.
Winning with 7:d6:d is harder and takes knowledge guts and skill
The luck is the same for everyone.
You can acquire the Knowledge, guts and skill.
That's what PokerStrategy.com is here for.
All the best,
--VS
If you work super hard and dedicate your entire life to poker I think you can beat any stakes even if your intelligence is avarage.
I actually believe you don't have to be super intelligent to beat most stakes. There are probably a decent amount of people who can beat NL1K but how many of them are really 'gifted'? There are probably a few average people who worked hard for years before reaching where they are now.
When it comes to earnings though, then being gifted certainly matters. An average guy who can beat nl200 will lose out to someone who is gifted (able to think quickly, be more productive, or even super strong mentally etc) because the gifted guy can probably play more tables, maintaining the same WR by making less mistakes because his brain can process things super quick. No average guy can ever grind like nanonoko profitably ♦
