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AQo OOP Low Flop v Nit

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Macqas
Joined: 25.08.2014

Hello,

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2.11 (105.5 bb)
BB: $2.05 (102.5 bb)
Hero (UTG): $2 (100 bb)
MP: $2.07 (103.5 bb)
CO: $2.02 (101 bb) [VPIP:15.00;PFR:7.00;TOT3Bet:0.00;(61 Hands)]
BTN: $2 (100 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A Q
Hero raises to $0.06, MP folds, CO calls $0.06, 3 folds

Flop: ($0.15) 7 3 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.07, Hero calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.29) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.14, Hero calls $0.14

River: ($0.57) 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.28, Hero folds

PreFlop - I OR in UTG and the CO calls

Flop - The villain has a tendency to be a nit player over a tiny sample, so I think his range can be 22-JJ, and some broadways. So that, I decide to x/c as I am not making almost any of those hands to fold
Turn - The turn card doesn't change much and I decide to x/c again to his 1/2 neutral Pot Bet and see if I can see the showdown
River - He Bets again on the river 1/2 Pot, I don't expect to much 3 street bluffs from a nit so I decide to fold as he's probably VBetting and I'm probably beat

What do you think on my check on the Flop?; What do you think is the villains range?; What would have been your approch to the hand?

Thank you


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9 replies

I don't mind the check on the flop on this board, where it's hard to represent anything as a UTG open raiser, although if he really is a nit, you might be able to get him to fold anyway.
However, it's too small a sample size here to be sure. Normally I keep track of "Fold to Cbet" stat, and if it's high enough, I exploit it.
But it's reasonable here.

However, you call 2 streets. Are you you suddenly claiming the nit is willing to risk 2 streets of betting against someone who has shown willingness to call?
So what is your plan on the turn? just - "if he bets again, I fold, otherwise, I get to see a showdown and then still lose not so rarely against his range"?

Basically, your problem is that you're willing to call several bets with a hand that is basically air.
Ace highs are pretty bad hands, good only as either bluffs or bluff catchers. That's it.
you shouldn't want to see a showdown against most players (Definitely not against nits who become really aggressive) with A highs, so you sometimes just fold your hand, sometimes try to take them off it with bluffs yourself, either with bets or with check/raise...
Even one pair hands usually don't want expensive showdowns.

Actually, against most opponents who aren't too lose, even a good pair hand (even top pair) doesn't normally want to play for stacks, as top pair hands fair very poorly in most of those situations, so you sometimes want to make sure the showdown doesn't come too expensive, or that there are enough worse hands that will give you value to make risking a loss possible).

Just check/calling down 2 streets with no plan of playing back with just air is going to be a very unprofitable and losing business proposition in the long run.
ad some check/fold and check/raise into these situations often. And also, only call down multiple streets with a plan. (how many outs you have. Are they "clean"? do you have fold equity if you suddenly bet? how much of it? Are you really still way ahead of his range even with air? is this player betting multiple streets? what cards on the river I could use as scare cards to make him fold? etc. )

Otherwise, without a plan, you're starting from a position of losing the bets you called... so you have to be way ahead of his range to even consider it, not just "doing ok", since multiple rounds of action often strengthen his range (depends on board and context of course...).


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wimNP
Joined: 11.03.2011

Aha, a fellow student of Lemon's beginners Coarse on SH NLmicro.

You're being buzzy, sir. Good for you!

In this hand I wonder what made you deviate from Lemon's strategy?

Pre flop
As UTG O/R you should open to 4bb with this hand. You opened to 3bb.

On the flop
You have an A-high trash hand, in a heads-up situation. Standard strategy says: Hero bets 2/3 pot. Hero folds if he gets raised.

Spoiler

In the actual hand (AH-situation) on the flop the pot is 1.5 (blinds) + 3 + 3 = 7,5 bb
So Hero C-bet would be 5 bb.
The pot odds for Villain would be 12.5 to 5 is 2.5 to 1. He would have to risk 1 to win 2.5.

When the hand was played according to the strategy (S-situation) the pot would be 1.5 + 4 + 4 = 9,5
The C-bet would be 6.3 bb.
The pot odds for Villain would be 15.8 to 6.3 is 2.5 to 1. He would have to risk 1 to win 2.5.

On the turn
Our trash-handed Hero checks/folds.

Spoiler

But on the flop Villain doesn't know that. Which means he could face a new C-bet on the turn for 2/3 pot:
2/3 * 17,5 = 12 bb (AH-situation) which, when called leaves Villain with (1 +100 -3 -5 -12 = 80 bb +1 bb) as the pot has grown to 41.5 bb.
2/3 * 22,1 = 14,7 bb (S-situation) which, when called leaves Villain with (1 +100 -3 -6.3 -14.7 = 76 bb +1 bb) as the pot has grown to 51.5 bb.

Here, I would stick to Lemon's strategy. UTG you open very tight: 22+, ATs+, KQs, ATo+, KQo =
78 pocket pairs and 80 unpaired hands.
On the flop H could easily made his set, but more than 50 % of his pocket pairs are overpairs. Hero's unpaired hands are all overcards with 6 outs.

So in my opinion by checking/calling flop and turn, Hero advertises he has 'squadouche'.


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

check/fold flop seems reasonable. you've already determined that his pocket pairs connect well and your hand sucks so i guess that makes sense


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vs nit I would prefer bet the flop and barel on scare cards as nits tend to fold too much, but if you want to take less variance then I would just x/f this flop.


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pisiattu
Joined: 01.04.2010

Cc flop cf turn


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Opening 3x is fine pre. We can call villains 1/2 pot bet OTF cause we have 2 overs. Turn is a x/f.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I don't like the turn call too.
As played, river is a fold.


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Macqas
Joined: 25.08.2014

Hello NoOneSpcl; wimNP,

Originally posted by NoOneSpcl
Just check/calling down 2 streets with no plan of playing back with just air is going to be a very unprofitable and losing business proposition in the long run.
ad some check/fold and check/raise into these situations often. And also, only call down multiple streets with a plan. (how many outs you have. Are they "clean"? do you have fold equity if you suddenly bet? how much of it? Are you really still way ahead of his range even with air? is this player betting multiple streets? what cards on the river I could use as scare cards to make him fold? etc. )

I appreciate you've taken some of your time to answer to this post, you've definitely given me a lot of things to think about, and I hope I can learn from them

Originally posted by wimNP
In this hand I wonder what made you deviate from Lemon's strategy?

I thought that I could began to do some adaptions that I considered were going to be more profitable to a particular situation, but I guess I'll stick to the begginer's strategy until I feel I have some concepts clear


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

As perhaps pointed out (some posts are too long to read), the real mistake is the turn play. Flop can be any of b/f, c/c, c/f. I am personally check-folding versus a good player (whether tight or loose), bet-folding versus a true nit and check-calling versus a wild man. Other than that, I'm flipping a coin.


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