Ez fold OTR?

I think we should raise OTF. There is 4 opponents and we have to protect our hand. Turn bet is too small. What can villain have otr? KK would 3bet us pre, flushes didn't complete, A4 beats us but we have AA so it's not so likely, would he call OTT with random 5x? I think calling wouldn't be terrible here.

It is a river fold. Everything semi-reasonable the board allows is in this dudes range judging from the 27 hands we have. Unless we have reason to suspect that villain (in addition to being sort of loose) dislikes money/and or bluffs way too much, we have to fold, there are better bluff-catchers (like A4s).

Calling with a couple AA combos may be fine though, because A4s is kind of a thin bluff catching range. (Sets should probably raise earlier on.) Then primarily avoid the AA combos with spades because these block the occasional busted flush draw. But it is a pot-sized bet, and we shouldn't call very much.

Why raise flop on such a dry board?
I agree that folding vs this bet is ok on river.

Originally posted by nitrol
Why raise flop on such a dry board?
...

Also, it is a 4-player deal on the flop. Raising screams out that you have AK+.

Originally posted by nitrol
Why raise flop on such a dry board?

I think I'm gonna adopt your style and answer with a question.. Why call flop?

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol
Why raise flop on such a dry board?

I think I'm gonna adopt your style and answer with a question.. Why call flop?

because when we raise, we pretty much isolate ourself vs better hands imo. we block flush draws and AK after all...

This many players on the flop increases our need to protect our hand imo. I don't know if we block flush draws very much. JTs and KQs are everyone's favourife hands and I see a lot of lower suited connectors in SB's and BB's range. That is true that we might isolate ourselves vs better hands but it isn't necessarily so. I see AK, KX and pairs with BDFD calling our raise too. I admit that I might be wrong here.

With that many players postflop the equity we have lessens significantly. With raising you will make weaker hands fold and will face only 2p+ that beat us.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol
Why raise flop on such a dry board?

I think I'm gonna adopt your style and answer with a question.. Why call flop?

I am not against you asking questions but when you suggest an action you should be capable of explaining why do you think it is best for you. Sometimes when trying to anawer those questions you will find the answer yourself.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol
Why raise flop on such a dry board?

I think I'm gonna adopt your style and answer with a question.. Why call flop?

I am not against you asking questions but when you suggest an action you should be capable of explaining why do you think it is best for you. Sometimes when trying to anawer those questions you will find the answer yourself.

By asking "why raise flop" I assume you are saying it is not a good idea. When you have an opinion here you should be capable to explain it too. I know you are. I would like if you put your opinion in the same message like this: "Why ? I think *, because of ***". That way the discussion would be more fluent. I understand that you want to be #1 on the leaderboard and by doing that you will keep your place there...

I pretty much explained in my messages why I would raise otf. It was mostly for protection. I see that there is some problems in my thinking in this spot.

What you would like and what I will do will sometime differ.
I asked you a simple question - to explain why you think a certain move is better and you suggest it.
Do not feel offended that not only I but other players too put your suggestion to the test. This will help You improve.

As I am a full grown man, I have the right to decide how and when to say what I want to say and you will be the last to tell me that.
If you are not happy with my comments - do not read them.

As for the real issue: All the usual reasons for calling and the reasons for raising are all there. It is a matter of deciding which is best when all numbers and ranges are plugged in. I don't hate raising, and I have argued much for it in related situations, but one reason for not raising here (where I might otherwise argue for a raise) is that overcards can't hit and hurt us. Protecting versus 3 opponents is a lot harder than versus 2, because you don't bluff (much) when you do it.

You should have tried to isolate OTF with a raise. But I don't mind the fold OTR.