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AQs gets 3bet & flops TP

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slippyjim
Joined: 07.10.2011

BTN 16/14 3bet 5% - 91 hands

BTN seems quite tight so is it just best to fold this pre flop? I'm OOP with a none too great hand and then when I catch a piece of the flop I feel I have to call one bet, even though its a big one which usually means they have it at NL5.
On the turn I can't see how I'm ahead, best case scenario is a chop

Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $4.21 (42.1 bb)
BB: $11.56 (115.6 bb)
Hero (UTG): $10.50 (105 bb)
MP: $5.60 (56 bb)
CO: $9.42 (94.2 bb)
BTN: $5.14 (51.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q A
Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, BTN raises to $0.90, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.60

Flop: ($1.95) 8 T Q (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.20, Hero calls $1.20

Turn: ($4.35) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $3.04, Hero folds

Results:

Spoiler

$4.35 pot ($0.21 rake)
Final Board: 8 T Q 5
Hero mucked Q A and lost (-$2.10 net)
BTN mucked and won $4.14 ($2.04 net)


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20 replies
DieRich
Joined: 13.10.2015

imo fold is best vs this specific opponent, maybe 4b/fold, calling is the worst option here i think


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Calling pre should be fine. Calling flop with TPTK and BDFD is ok. We can fold turn. WP imo. W34z3l's BTNvsUTG 3bet range is KK+,A5s-A3s,KJs,AJo,KQo. That is 4% and villains 3bet stat is 5%. No need to consider him so tight that folding would be better imo.


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Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

Shove flop (x/s)


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strikerp
Joined: 25.07.2007

Ap x/r AI otf. TP/TK on such a wet board with given SPR is for sure strong enough to get it in here (you're also blocking some of his value combos (AA) and not blocking possible FDs).


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AlvisR
Joined: 27.02.2009

3bet stat vs early position? TOtal 5% 3b stat can be 2% 3betting vs ep and 11 restealing from blinds vs BU. With that being said it might be skewed up and is not right. So once again, whats 3bet stat vs ep or mp? in position? :coolface:


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by la55i
Calling pre should be fine. Calling flop with TPTK and BDFD is ok. We can fold turn. WP imo. W34z3l's BTNvsUTG 3bet range is KK+,A5s-A3s,KJs,AJo,KQo. That is 4% and villains 3bet stat is 5%. No need to consider him so tight that folding would be better imo.

Bu is 3 betting vs utg so when his overall 3b stat is 5% in this situation it will be 2-2.5 max. Calling vs that tight range is not fine.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by AlvisR
3bet stat vs early position? TOtal 5% 3b stat can be 2% 3betting vs ep and 11 restealing from blinds vs BU. With that being said it might be skewed up and is not right. So once again, whats 3bet stat vs ep or mp? in position? :coolface:

91 hands is not enough to look at positional 3bet stats. Might be even too little to say what villains overall 3bet stat really is.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i
Calling pre should be fine. Calling flop with TPTK and BDFD is ok. We can fold turn. WP imo. W34z3l's BTNvsUTG 3bet range is KK+,A5s-A3s,KJs,AJo,KQo. That is 4% and villains 3bet stat is 5%. No need to consider him so tight that folding would be better imo.

Bu is 3 betting vs utg so when his overall 3b stat is 5% in this situation it will be 2-2.5 max. Calling vs that tight range is not fine.

BTN looks a bit fishy because of his stack size. We can't know if he is aware of positions. We can't know if his 2% 3bet range contains bluffs or not. What if he is 3betting QQ+,AJo, then we have 50% equity. I'm not folding based on stats from 91 hands.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by AlvisR
3bet stat vs early position? TOtal 5% 3b stat can be 2% 3betting vs ep and 11 restealing from blinds vs BU. With that being said it might be skewed up and is not right. So once again, whats 3bet stat vs ep or mp? in position? :coolface:

91 hands is not enough to look at positional 3bet stats. Might be even too little to say what villains overall 3bet stat really is.

Why do you use it in your first post then?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i
Calling pre should be fine. Calling flop with TPTK and BDFD is ok. We can fold turn. WP imo. W34z3l's BTNvsUTG 3bet range is KK+,A5s-A3s,KJs,AJo,KQo. That is 4% and villains 3bet stat is 5%. No need to consider him so tight that folding would be better imo.

Bu is 3 betting vs utg so when his overall 3b stat is 5% in this situation it will be 2-2.5 max. Calling vs that tight range is not fine.

BTN looks a bit fishy because of his stack size. We can't know if he is aware of positions. We can't know if his 2% 3bet range contains bluffs or not. What if he is 3betting QQ+,AJo, then we have 50% equity. I'm not folding based on stats from 91 hands.

After you reached that his stack is short, think how many bluffs will there be? Why do you call and what flops do you want to hit. I think in this case call is not the best option.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

O, I forgot, what if villain plays shortstack strategy?


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by AlvisR
3bet stat vs early position? TOtal 5% 3b stat can be 2% 3betting vs ep and 11 restealing from blinds vs BU. With that being said it might be skewed up and is not right. So once again, whats 3bet stat vs ep or mp? in position? :coolface:

91 hands is not enough to look at positional 3bet stats. Might be even too little to say what villains overall 3bet stat really is.

Why do you use it in your first post then?

Do you think 91 hands is enough? Usually you are the first one to say that sample size is too small... I used it as a guideline. Vs unknown I think we can call, if we use that 5% overall I think we could call(?) BUT the sample size is too small to really look at 3bet stat. It might be 3% or 8% really.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i
Calling pre should be fine. Calling flop with TPTK and BDFD is ok. We can fold turn. WP imo. W34z3l's BTNvsUTG 3bet range is KK+,A5s-A3s,KJs,AJo,KQo. That is 4% and villains 3bet stat is 5%. No need to consider him so tight that folding would be better imo.

Bu is 3 betting vs utg so when his overall 3b stat is 5% in this situation it will be 2-2.5 max. Calling vs that tight range is not fine.

BTN looks a bit fishy because of his stack size. We can't know if he is aware of positions. We can't know if his 2% 3bet range contains bluffs or not. What if he is 3betting QQ+,AJo, then we have 50% equity. I'm not folding based on stats from 91 hands.

After you reached that his stack is short, think how many bluffs will there be? Why do you call and what flops do you want to hit. I think in this case call is not the best option.

I think there is enough bluffs. Do you think there is none? I would like to hit nut flush, FD, A, Q + BDFD etc.. Could we 4bet pre or do you think folding is the only option?


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by nitrol
O, I forgot, what if villain plays shortstack strategy?

What if he doesn't? Imo SSS is not so common these days.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by AlvisR
3bet stat vs early position? TOtal 5% 3b stat can be 2% 3betting vs ep and 11 restealing from blinds vs BU. With that being said it might be skewed up and is not right. So once again, whats 3bet stat vs ep or mp? in position? :coolface:

91 hands is not enough to look at positional 3bet stats. Might be even too little to say what villains overall 3bet stat really is.

Why do you use it in your first post then?

Do you think 91 hands is enough? Usually you are the first one to say that sample size is too small... I used it as a guideline. Vs unknown I think we can call, if we use that 5% overall I think we could call(?) BUT the sample size is too small to really look at 3bet stat. It might be 3% or 8% really.

It doesn't matter what I think. Why do you use 5% as a base for your first post and afterwards you tell sample size is small.
I think sample size is small but if you read carefully what other components form my opinion you will not write meaningless posts.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

How many bluffs will have a halfstack, 3betting vs utg? Remember he isn't a regular fullstack villain.
It is up to you to decide whether to push (as you cannot fold vs aggression) or fold preflop. In this particular case I prefer folding, call me a nit. :)
If villain was fullstack the call has more reason, there will be enough stack to try and outplay villain Postflop.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol
O, I forgot, what if villain plays shortstack strategy?

What if he doesn't? Imo SSS is not so common these days.

I would not bet on that... still face good shortstackers.


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AlvisR
Joined: 27.02.2009

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by AlvisR
3bet stat vs early position? TOtal 5% 3b stat can be 2% 3betting vs ep and 11 restealing from blinds vs BU. With that being said it might be skewed up and is not right. So once again, whats 3bet stat vs ep or mp? in position? :coolface:

91 hands is not enough to look at positional 3bet stats. Might be even too little to say what villains overall 3bet stat really is.

Congrats on categorizing him as unknown. So now how do you define unknown 3bettors? Looser or tighter overall? How would you like to play vs unknowns - looser or tighter?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Tighter of course. :)


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