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KQ Strong Draw v Pot Donk Bet

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Macqas
Joined: 25.08.2014

Hello,

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2 (100 bb)
BB: $4.47 (223.5 bb) [VPIP:53.00;PFR:11.00;(Hands:20)]
Hero (UTG): $2 (100 bb)
MP: $2.47 (123.5 bb)
CO: $2 (100 bb)
BTN: $2.01 (100.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K Q
Hero raises to $0.08, 4 folds, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) 7 J 8 (2 players)
BB bets $0.16, Hero raises to $0.64, BB raises to $1.12, Hero raises to $1.92 and is all-in, BB calls $0.80

Turn: ($4.01) J (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($4.01) 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

PreFlop - I OR to 4bb and the BB, who is presumably a recreational player, calls

Flop - The villain DonkBets the pot. I don't think there are bluffs in his range, I believe he can have 87s, T9, 77-88 and JJ but I would expect him to x/r them. On the other hand, I think he's most likely donk betting the pot with Jx hands, against which I can count me 15 outs. So, my plan is to raise to a size that allows me to shove the turn

Would you have flat call his Donk Bet?; Would you opt to a more passive line when the villain shows that much strength?

Thank you


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6 replies
Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Nope, same line. It wouldn't be a shove OTF yet unless you also had your OESD as well. However, with your opponent re-raise you, even if he had the goods on the flop, you still have outs regardless so indeed committing yourself in this situation is a fine line IMO.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I prefer the passive line here. You are opening solid (4bb) from utg and this flop doesn't hit your range. So villain can donk all those hands you enlisted, as you can xb and get a free card.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

Just call his donkbet. I agree with you that he doesn't have bluffs but you can't rule out two pair/sets/straight/nutFD so you don't really have 15 clean outs. You can't make stronger hands fold and you aren't ahead of his range so calling in position should be the best line.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

I would take the passive line here. Just call his donk OTF.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Originally posted by Macqas
...
Flop - The villain DonkBets the pot. I don't think there are bluffs in his range,
...

This comment is sort of unusual to be found in these forums. It is usually "they are never strong here". The truth is of course that they are sometimes strong, sometimes weak.

A good donker (rare animal) will here have a mixture of combodraws and nut hands. If you raise this type of donker, he will move in/raise big. The best way to defend is to just call on the flop. That is the only way to give him a tough decision if he happens to be on a draw. By raising, you are the one with the tough decision since he will almost always re-pop. I doubt you can ever raise for much value (even with FD + overs or an overpair) versus the total range, because this donker is looking to get raised.

Then there are of course as well fish donking stuff like A♥:8♥: here.

At any rate, expecting to have 15 outs (effectively) is a clear mistake. Don't put him "on a hand" (Jx) and base decisions on that. It is just silly. Put him on a range, and have some respect for a pot-sized donk.


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Macqas
Joined: 25.08.2014

Hello YohanN7,

Originally posted by YohanN7
At any rate, expecting to have 15 outs (effectively) is a clear mistake. Don't put him "on a hand" (Jx) and base decisions on that. It is just silly. Put him on a range, and have some respect for a pot-sized donk.

Thank you for your reply, I'll keep it mind for the future


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