KK preflop

The answer is no. You never have to fold KK pre. Shove here.

His range is wider then only AA. I would have shoved KK here.

Guys, we play vs a rock. If his stats are 9/6 his open range from mp3 is not bigger than 4%. With 25% of it he 4 bets- 1%, AA, KK.
There is 1possible combo of KK and 6 combos of AA....
Vs such a rock we should call preflop.

I'm never an advocate of folding KK pre but this is the player to do it against if you're going to. A 5bet isn't getting called by QQ here. Also it's full ring.

Then again it's NL2 so we have Retard Equity™.

But against 3bet he 4bets 25% of the time. I'm sure that guy gets 3betted a lot so there must be other hands than AA in his 4bet range? He is a rock but I think he might have AKs in his range too?

Originally posted by la55i
But against 3bet he 4bets 25% of the time.

That makes sense if he only opens 5% of the time.

I do agree he probably gets it in with AK preflop at least sometimes.

I have played a few millons hands of CG and might have folded KK twice (intentionally ♦) preflop. However in this case I would do it again. he pretty much has AA/KK .

unless you have been super aggressive and have re-raised the few last pots (especially vs him) in which case it is a clear shove

He's got a wide range. 4bet is not always Aces.

No, you should never fold KK pre flop in this spot. Go all in.

Originally posted by MrPink578
He's got a wide range. 4bet is not always Aces.

No, you should never fold KK pre flop in this spot. Go all in.

6% raise
25% 4bets => that's 1.5% range, if you call that a wide range, how tight are you?

I would have shoved KK here with no doubt, most likely u have a best hand.

Originally posted by lapsinsh
I would have shoved KK here with no doubt, most likely u have a best hand.

Well I wouldn't say most likely.. Villain open raises 6% and versus 3bets he 4bets 25%. Meaning he is 4betting KK+,AKs only. Since we have KK we are blocking his KK and AKs combos so most likely he has AA here. I think it is not a huge mistake to call here, since we can't be 100% sure that villain has so tight range.

I would take a look at positional stats for that sample, we can't just multiply his total PFR and his 4bet% and figure out his range. I don't play fullring so I don't really know the dynamics but I would definitely agree with folding if he was on the earlier positions, stack off if he was CO/BU and this seems borderline.
Still probably folding is best as such a player will call his AK/QQ in position often - if we decide to stack off and we're wrong (he doesn't 4bet KK/QQ), we're very wrong - we just stacked off with 20% equity. Even if he does 4bet those hands always, it's not that great - less than 60% EQ. With that in mind folding here should be fine and probably him being CO is the borderline decision.

Originally posted by thazar

Originally posted by MrPink578
He's got a wide range. 4bet is not always Aces.

No, you should never fold KK pre flop in this spot. Go all in.

6% raise
25% 4bets => that's 1.5% range, if you call that a wide range, how tight are you?

6 is his overall pfr. From ep it will be less. I guessed 4% and will stick to it.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by lapsinsh
I would have shoved KK here with no doubt, most likely u have a best hand.

Well I wouldn't say most likely.. Villain open raises 6% and versus 3bets he 4bets 25%. Meaning he is 4betting KK+,AKs only. Since we have KK we are blocking his KK and AKs combos so most likely he has AA here. I think it is not a huge mistake to call here, since we can't be 100% sure that villain has so tight range.

Villain that tight will call QQ, AK IP. He is also aware that you are 3 betting vs mp3 and you are not that wide too.

As a general rule, you do not fold AA and KK in poker. And you put villain on a range, never on a single hand.

Originally posted by scopinad
As a general rule, you do not fold AA and KK in poker. And you put villain on a range, never on a single hand.

I agree as a general rule. But in this particular case I fold

Sure.

Snap fold,keep folding until aces = profit

"If villain 3bets and goes broke with kings+ and we only continue with kings+ how is anyone making money? All we do is coolering each other. The only person making money is Howard Lederer and he is not even in the hand!"

Epic, oldie but goldie. Easy fold especially in this case. Take a look at this: