AQo: toppair vs 3rd barrel

I think I would squeeze pre flop. x/r otf might be a good idea too? That way we can protect from draws and we get called by weaker Ax and some Kx? As played river is a fold.

Originally posted by la55i
I think I would squeeze pre flop. x/r otf might be a good idea too? That way we can protect from draws and we get called by weaker Ax and some Kx? As played river is a fold.

Squeeze, yes. But then the x/r flop?(?(?(

I'd simply call it a value check-raise rather than speculate about "charging draws", which I always find peculiar when they have already paid to draw if that is what they are doing. The problem I see is about ranges, and TP/TK is something I'd keep in my check-calling range. The rationale being that not much (much enough!) worse is calling and nothing worse is folding.

I meant that since we didn't squeeze we could x/r, not that first sqz and then x/r. I was a bit unclear there. Your point about keeping TPTK in x/c range is good.

Okay, I can buy that (for qualitative reasoning). It makes some sense to me. We are under-represented as played.

Squeeze preflop is best for me. Our hand does not play well oop mw without initiative.
As played I don't like xr on flop as we will fold all weaker Ax and I want them to stay.

You should have definitely squeezed preflop. And if you were gonna fold, you should have done it on the turn. If he had you beat, then he had you before the river. I don't see that 9♣: changing anything. So if you were willing to call on the turn, you should have called the river.

Perfect example of agression vs passiveness.
Betting and raising give the active player two ways to win: the opponent folds the better hand or the active player shows the best hand.
Where as checking and calling give the passive player only one way to win: he has the best hand at show-down.

Originally posted by MrPink578
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And if you were gonna fold, you should have done it on the turn. If he had you beat, then he had you before the river. I don't see that 9♣: changing anything. So if you were willing to call on the turn, you should have called the river.

No, this kind of reasoning is invalid. It also makes you exploitable. But you can do it that way against unaware opponents as an exploitative measure.

Calling turn and planning to fold river is a play that really hurts, but it hurts more in the head than in the wallet, because we simply lose most times - but the times when bluffs/weak value hands stop betting compensate for these losses. There is also always a small chance of drawing out.

Originally posted by wimNP
Perfect example of agression vs passiveness.
...

I'd say it is position all the way. Initiative << position, and to gain initiative here builds up the pot (check-raise or (preferably) squeeze) to an uncomfortable size if you don't release initiative sooner or later holding TP.

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by MrPink578
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And if you were gonna fold, you should have done it on the turn. If he had you beat, then he had you before the river. I don't see that 9♣: changing anything. So if you were willing to call on the turn, you should have called the river.

No, this kind of reasoning is invalid. It also makes you exploitable. But you can do it that way against unaware opponents as an exploitative measure.

Calling turn and planning to fold river is a play that really hurts, but it hurts more in the head than in the wallet, because we simply lose most times - but the times when bluffs/weak value hands stop betting compensate for these losses. There is also always a small chance of drawing out.

I do not agree here. In this case it is better to fold turn if we are folding a blank river.

Originally posted by YohanN7

Originally posted by wimNP
Perfect example of agression vs passiveness.
...

I'd say it is position all the way. Initiative << position, and to gain initiative here builds up the pot (check-raise or (preferably) squeeze) to an uncomfortable size if you don't release initiative sooner or later holding TP.

Squeeze is the right way to gain initiative here.