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Straight in flush flop

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Polezi
Joined: 13.08.2009

Poker Stars, $0.08/$0.16 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $34.79 (217.4 bb)
Hero (BB): $22.12 (138.3 bb)
UTG: $16.24 (101.5 bb) VPIP: 16, PFR: 11, 3B: 7, AF: 1,8, Hands: 195 OR EP 8
MP: $55.61 (347.6 bb) VPIP: 22, PFR: 16, 3B: 7, AF: 0,5, Hands: 103
CO: $66.45 (415.3 bb)
BTN: $15.76 (98.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q J
UTG raises to $0.48, MP calls $0.48, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.32

Flop: ($1.52) 9 8 T (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.45, MP calls $1.45, Hero raises to $4, UTG raises to $15.76, MP folds, Hero calls $11.76

Can I fold this?


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20 replies
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Can you improve on later streets? And what is the purpose of your flop raise?

What do you think of squeezing preflop?


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

The opponents can improve and will call raises when you likely have the best hand, so the flop raise looks good.

Calling the reraise is judgment/Eqilab guesswork. (Who knows, he might hold 7♦:6♦:)


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

The call on flop is not ok, after the raise.


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I wouldn't fold yet. Chances of flopping a flush is like 1%. He's probably got the nut flush draw. First, I would have tried to squeeze pre flop. I would also call on the river. But, if another heart comes, you're more then likely done.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

Originally posted by MrPink578
Chances of flopping a flush is like 1%.

So what? I mean... We must think in ranges and evaluate based on the previous actions. I don't see how this affects anything.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Well, when the flop comes monochrome I don't see villain 3betting it with anything less than a flush?


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Pre is a squeeze IMO. Chances are that MP will fold. Keeping aggression and put UTG to a commitment decision will be an easy read whether villain reads your range correctly and if he has the goods or not. Either way, villain will re-raise you where you can safely fold your hand pre-flop or he calls and you most likely are ahead against his range OTF (since only flush is way ahead and FD he as between 40%-50% equity and occasional sets of which you are ahead as well).


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

UTG has very few flushes in his range. AKhh, AQhh, AJhh. Maaaaaybe KQhh but it seems a stretch from such a tight player.

On the other hand, most regs will like to get in their TT/99/88 on these flops, as well as hands like AhAx and combo draws such as AhJx.

I'm usually in agreement with nitrol but not this time. My immediate gut feeling says this is a perfectly fine raise/call but as Yohan says, it's one for Equilab to solve.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Villain is bet / raising mw and we cannot improve. .. I do not like it but will fold.


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Jaissica
Joined: 10.02.2009

Originally posted by la55i
Well, when the flop comes monochrome I don't see villain 3betting it with anything less than a flush?

You should bet-raise-shove sets for protection here, every time. Even if you are facing a flush you've got decent redraw equity. Overpairs with flush draws are calling you 100%.

------------------------

Not finding a fold in this spot with the straight. I'm expecting villain to sometimes have a flush, sometimes have a set, sometimes an overpair with the Ah, or A8o-AKo with the Ah. Heck even some paired kings (K8-9-T). The villain is nitty for SH but its off a small hand sample but that doesn't mean much yet, certainly not enough to resolve his hand range to shove the flop down to "flush only".

Folding here would be very tight, and absolutely -EV.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

Originally posted by la55i
Well, when the flop comes monochrome I don't see villain 3betting it with anything less than a flush?

If you were villain and you held TT here you wouldn't 3bet it??


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Actually yes I would 3bet my sets for protection. I think villain has some flushes in there and sets have good equity against us. If villains range is TT-88, AhAx,Ahkh,AhQh,AhJh,KhQh he has 53%. Maybe we can call this :)


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Most literature in poker argue you do not bet for protection nor information. You bet for 1) value 2) as a bluff, or 3) collection of dead money (which is in alignment with a bluff).


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by Hesticus
Most literature in poker argue you do not bet for protection nor information. You bet for 1) value 2) as a bluff, or 3) collection of dead money (which is in alignment with a bluff).

Try betting 1/3 every street on a wet flop with AA. Don't complain when villain hits his flush OTR... Ofc you know that you have to bet bigger so you don't give villain odds to call with his draws. It is still a valuebet but it is also for protection.


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MJPerry
Joined: 03.10.2011

A bet for protection IS a kind of value bet, so the statement "you bet for value or as a bluff" is still true.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

You are not protecting but making his draws pay. This is value.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by nitrol
You are not protecting but making his draws pay. This is value.

When the board is drawy, every bet that doesn't give villain correct odds to continue with draws is protection bet. It is a value bet that protects vs draws and we hope that villain will make a mistake and call despite wrong odds (same thing than making draws pay?) So imo we are betting for value and for protection because it is almost the same thing here?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I prefer to call it a value bet.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

It is indeed a value bet. However, protection is a consequence of it.


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