14K Hands micro nl sh zoom - My stats

14K looks like enough to get a start.
One stat I suggest looking at is called "River Call Efficiency"
It shows roughly whether you are calling too many river bets

Another thing I notice is that the red line is climbing very nicely but the blue line is dropping fast.
I suggest reading the forum thread https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=1214424#post1214424
In that thread one of our best coaches discusses the trade-off between winning at showdown (blue) and winning without showdown (red)

If you are winning so much without showdown, perhaps you are scaring people away that could pay you off either later, or with smaller bets. So if you're winning too much non-showdown, that means you are not getting better hands to fold.
On the other side of the street, if you are losing too much at showdown, perhaps it would have been better to fold some of these earlier. This means that you often lose less, and it also moves the loss to the red line.

Have you posted hand for discussion?

Thank you for looking!!

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
14K looks like enough to get a start.
One stat I suggest looking at is called "River Call Efficiency"
It shows roughly whether you are calling too many river bets

I added them to the end. Wow that does not look too good does it??

Another thing I notice is that the red line is climbing very nicely but the blue line is dropping fast.
I suggest reading the forum thread https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=1214424#post1214424
In that thread one of our best coaches discusses the trade-off between winning at showdown (blue) and winning without showdown (red)

That sounds like something just for me!

Have you posted hand for discussion?

Yes a bunch!

Okay, I read that post ftrom w34z3l.
It is certainly not that I am trying to influence either my red or blue line in any way though. But it was a good read. I might make more money if I let my opponent bluff the river sometimes. That would indeed also change the blue line.

But what about those river-calls??
Couldn't it be that the red line is doing it's thing, but the majority of showdown-losses comes from calling on the river way too often?

- Of course, because I've been unlucky in pre-river all-in situations, the blue line dives deep. It's hard to say how exactly it should go without the luck factor, but it's clear it's going down down down

I feel like a fish in a sharksuit now ...

You lose a lot on the showdown. That's the most interesting part I think.

It could be that you call the river to often, but it could be you are bluffing to often as well. Especially against passive players it's tough to bluff against.

It's good to check your database what's the biggest reason you lose so much at showdown.

Cheers,
SDK1987

Originally posted by SDK1987
You lose a lot on the showdown. That's the most interesting part I think.

It could be that you call the river to often, but it could be you are bluffing to often as well. Especially against passive players it's tough to bluff against.

It's good to check your database what's the biggest reason you lose so much at showdown.

Cheers,

SDK1987

I don't think I'm bluffing river too often. But these are the hands I either check-called or called the river:
Edit: This graph seems wrong!!

If you think there isn’t a problem with hands when you are the preflop aggressor, it would be good to see stats when you are the preflop caller as well. I mean fold to cbet and raise cbet for start (flop, turn, river OFC).

Originally posted by LahtiPelican
If you think there isn’t a problem with hands when you are the preflop aggressor, it would be good to see stats when you are the preflop caller as well. I mean fold to cbet and raise cbet for start (flop, turn, river OFC).

Hi, I added stats to my first post!

But honestly, looking at that call-down graph makes me think this really is a leak. And I have something to work on now. I think if I stop calling those rivers I'm going to be rich.

Originally posted by Stackoffski
Hi, I added stats to my first post!

But honestly, looking at that call-down graph makes me think this really is a leak. And I have something to work on now. I think if I stop calling those rivers I'm going to be rich.

You are right, you play very agressive when you are the pre caller. I suggest to check statname.net, where you can filter top players. I bet you won't find any big winner reg who has positive red line. Also check their fold to flop cbet stat. Most of the big winners has more than 50% fold to cbet. (37,3% fold to turn cbet is very small as well. I think you don't have big enough sample to talk about fold to river cbet, but 25% is very small.)

Your call cbet stats are 36,9%, 43,3% and 50% on river. It would be good to know your total call 2bet stat, but from these we can say you call too much against 3 barrels. I have the same leak and had a coaching session yesterday about it, so let's see some examples to better understanding.

Let's starts with you, who has higher cbet stats than average. Total RFI is 25,6%, cbets are 58,4%, 39,7 and 47,7%. Which means you 3 barrels with the top (0,256*0,584*0,397*0,477= )2,83% .

Let's see my stats. Total RFI 28,56%. cbets are 66,78%, 44,32%, 64,82%, which means I 3 barrel with the top (0,2856*0,6678*0,4432*0,6482= ) 5,48%

Biggest winner on NL2 in the last half year (11,6 evbb/100 on 177k hands). Total RFI is 26, 50%, 64%, 45%. Top 3,74%.

Random fish. Tot RFI 31%, cbets 73%, 54%, 36%. He bets a lot, still top 4,4%.

OFC you can check more weaker players in your database as well, but I bet you can see now where we are going: you call 3 barrels against those tight ranges.

You can't see raise cbet stats on staname. If you find a player in your database, who will raise flop cbets only for value, his stat will be around 6-8%. If you see a stat more than 10%, you can expect some bluffs/semi bluffs in his raise cbet range on the flop. IMO you can be a huge winner on NL2-5 without ever raising light in these spots, but you have 27,6%! Raise turn and river stats are high as well, but I am sure you don't have enough sample to talk about them.

I see you posted a lot to hand discussion forum. Based on the stats you posted, if I were you I would filter to situations where I called or raised flop cbet and post hands from those.

Thank you LahtiPelican for looking and commenting...

Although I don't know what is good, those call cbet stats sure seem high, considering you don't make a hand that often.

And my cbets are low (although you say it's higher than average) compared to yours and that big winner.

I will make an account on statname.net and take a look

Originally posted by Stackoffski
Thank you for looking!!

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Another thing I notice is that the red line is climbing very nicely but the blue line is dropping fast.
I suggest reading the forum thread https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=1214424#post1214424
In that thread one of our best coaches discusses the trade-off between winning at showdown (blue) and winning without showdown (red)

That sounds like something just for me!

hey hey! there is more people here!!!

Somehow I managed to make a wrong filter and the graph from a few posts back is wrong.

These should be right:

Call or check-call flop:

Call or check-call turn:

Call or check-call river:

Originally posted by LahtiPelican

Originally posted by Stackoffski
Hi, I added stats to my first post!

But honestly, looking at that call-down graph makes me think this really is a leak. And I have something to work on now. I think if I stop calling those rivers I'm going to be rich.

You are right, you play very agressive when you are the pre caller. I suggest to check statname.net, where you can filter top players. I bet you won't find any big winner reg who has positive red line. Also check their fold to flop cbet stat. Most of the big winners has more than 50% fold to cbet. (37,3% fold to turn cbet is very small as well. I think you don't have big enough sample to talk about fold to river cbet, but 25% is very small.)

Your call cbet stats are 36,9%, 43,3% and 50% on river. It would be good to know your total call 2bet stat, but from these we can say you call too much against 3 barrels. I have the same leak and had a coaching session yesterday about it, so let's see some examples to better understanding.

Let's starts with you, who has higher cbet stats than average. Total RFI is 25,6%, cbets are 58,4%, 39,7 and 47,7%. Which means you 3 barrels with the top (0,256*0,584*0,397*0,477= )2,83% .

Let's see my stats. Total RFI 28,56%. cbets are 66,78%, 44,32%, 64,82%, which means I 3 barrel with the top (0,2856*0,6678*0,4432*0,6482= ) 5,48%

Biggest winner on NL2 in the last half year (11,6 evbb/100 on 177k hands). Total RFI is 26, 50%, 64%, 45%. Top 3,74%.

Random fish. Tot RFI 31%, cbets 73%, 54%, 36%. He bets a lot, still top 4,4%.

OFC you can check more weaker players in your database as well, but I bet you can see now where we are going: you call 3 barrels against those tight ranges.

You can't see raise cbet stats on staname. If you find a player in your database, who will raise flop cbets only for value, his stat will be around 6-8%. If you see a stat more than 10%, you can expect some bluffs/semi bluffs in his raise cbet range on the flop. IMO you can be a huge winner on NL2-5 without ever raising light in these spots, but you have 27,6%! Raise turn and river stats are high as well, but I am sure you don't have enough sample to talk about them.

I see you posted a lot to hand discussion forum. Based on the stats you posted, if I were you I would filter to situations where I called or raised flop cbet and post hands from those.

just awesome reply LahtiPelican! Will definitely cross examine them to see where i'm standing!

Bet, Raise, or check-raise flop:

Bet, Raise, or check-raise turn:

Bet, Raise, or check-raise river:

Man ... I will have to focus on calling less in general and folding more (because raising is another option :f_tongue:). And moreover I really have to focus on my riverplay, I just put money in too often, too light.

Well I at least I know what's going on a little bit ...

interesting thread, as your playing style is very unusual for those stakes.

you are testing an aggressive gameplan in an environment, that is probably still calling too much. so i would be carefull w that approach.

in general your gameplan looks overly aggo. your raising stats are 20-25 % on the streets, when around 15 % is GTO. so you do not have enough strong hands in them to justify the aggression. an easy adjustment would be to call you down. thats what the pool does anyway.

so i would rather undershoot the 15%.

as vorpal pointed out, your RCE is at 0,9. meaning that for very $ invested, you get back 0,9 $. when i last looked, on micros you should overfold rivers, not overcall, as the population is very honest. go for an RCE of 1,3 - 1,5.

when you are serious about your game, you should consider getting a solver. its an eyeopening experience.

oh, and pls add your skip c-bet and call, raise and fold stats.

Thank you for your feedback as well Pokamon!

I have some serious stuff to work on, my whole game needs to change I feel like.

A Solver sounds expensive? Too expensive for now probably.

I don't understand which call, raise and fold stats you mean exactly, I don't know a lot about all these stats. Anyway, it's all a bit overwhelming now. I am calling too much postflop, but now I'm also raising too much?
I am too aggro but also calling too much. Just inverse everything I do?

i was referring to XC, XR, XF as PFR. in HEM they are called skip c-bet and call, raise, fold. you are probably using PT.

Originally posted by Stackoffski
Just inverse everything I do?

poker is quite complicated. hopefully you did not expect to have figured it out already.

so what should you do?
pick a spot, that you want to study. look at your range on a certain board and figure out what to do w/ each combo.
say you have a J76s board. which combos do you want to raise for value? how many combos do you need to bluff to be balanced.

dont know how that works, or want details?
read janda, applications.

its is stuff like that, that will help you improve. GL.

Originally posted by Pokamon
i was referring to XC, XR, XF as PFR. in HEM they are called skip c-bet and call, raise, fold. you are probably using PT.

No I'm using HEM. There are dozens skip cbet stats, I don't see stats exactly like you mentioned. But anyhow I think I have enough to focus on.

poker is quite complicated. hopefully you did not expect to have figured it out already.

so what should you do?
pick a spot, that you want to study. look at your range on a certain board and figure out what to do w/ each combo.
say you have a J76s board. which combos do you want to raise for value? how many combos do you need to bluff to be balanced.

dont know how that works, or want details?
read janda, applications.

its is stuff like that, that will help you improve. GL.

It's not that I don't expect poker to be hard, but I am just playing the lowest limits possible, 2nl and 5nl. But will drop back top 2nl until things change. So at these lowest limits, in these large zoom pools, do I really need to think about balancing ranges already? Isn't this a little bit more advanced stuff you need to do against opponents you play a lot of hands with? (I don't know)

Will have to get that Janda book sometime. You would really already recommend this?

When I post hands again, I am going to think what I would do with my whole range and not just my holecards. But whether to go as far as calculating how to balance my range, probably not yet, unless people insist!

Thanks for your time. Gl to you too.

Originally posted by Stackoffski
do I really need to think about balancing ranges already?

there is no way in hell, that you are raising 25% OTF for value. that number would be 5%. a good balance would be 1 part value, 2 parts bluff and we would be at a common GTO frequency for 15%.

to answer your question specificly. no, you do not need to be balanced, as you will not have the proper FE. so 1 part value, 1 part bluffs should get the job done. but to come up w the 10% frequency, you will still have to put in the effort.

so what is your thinking, when you raise 25% in that spot? how do you want to improve, when you do not want to look into stuff?

Originally posted by Stackoffski
not yet

isnt that really an excuse not to start working on your game?
when would be the right time if not now?

sorry for me speaking so frankly, but thats how i am.