[Closed] flat 4bet with AA vs UTG nl100

I dont play FR... but I would be 5bet shoving here unless I know he will fold KK/AK all the time. For 100bb deep I daresay we cant balance our 4b/call range anyway so competent villain should suspect oyu have a very strong hand once you flat.

Since he mostly folds to 3b I would give he a pretty strong range for 4betting you here (esp since your utg1 3b range should be pretty strong?) and therefore Id like to just get it in.

As played I'm folding on the river since I just dont think he is bluffing enough in this spot, mainly because this board hits our 3b/call range so hard so he cant expect to have any fEq by the river especially once we called the turn with only 1/4 potsz left.

agree w tim that call 4bet is not balanceable.

I would either 3bet/shove (around 30% of the time w AA hands and 3bet/fold w approx same amount of bluffs w SCs or SOneGappers in 3bet range here) or just flat call preflop (around 70% of AA hands).

In the end it looks like you are 3betting only aces from this position (whereas you have aces some time but have at least same amount of bluffs in range) and you also balance your flat calling range.

As played I also fold river.

of course we cannot balance our 4bet flatting range. but if we can get away by playing exploitably, there's no need to balance right? and if our exploitative strategies get picked up, we can then adjust? what more this scenario happens on so few occassions, they cant even construct a range especially since regulars in my limits can still flat fold in such spots and turn up with some interesting hands like AK, QQ and pps.

i flat also because its a spot where he's extremely polarised, and i wanna keep all his bluffs in his range. like how you can't balance a 4bet flat, you cant balance a 5bet in this spot right? i only lose value from AK, and KK(on A high board) and he's always stacking off his value range, and i doubt he's 4betting JJ/QQ for value ? so no reason i'm giving him credit for a set of Q or J. his value range that beats me is probably KK only?

i agree if these positions u should just shove but i like calling a 4b with AA in LP (or the blinds) vs LP(or the blinds) vs agro opponents.

Originally posted by supeyrio
of course we cannot balance our 4bet flatting range. but if we can get away by playing exploitably, there's no need to balance right? and if our exploitative strategies get picked up, we can then adjust? what more this scenario happens on so few occassions, they cant even construct a range especially since regulars in my limits can still flat fold in such spots and turn up with some interesting hands like AK, QQ and pps.

i flat also because its a spot where he's extremely polarised, and i wanna keep all his bluffs in his range. like how you can't balance a 4bet flat, you cant balance a 5bet in this spot right? i only lose value from AK, and KK(on A high board) and he's always stacking off his value range, and i doubt he's 4betting JJ/QQ for value ? so no reason i'm giving him credit for a set of Q or J. his value range that beats me is probably KK only?

Agree with this. I also came to the conclusion that flatting 4bets can be ok against some opponents or some spots like the one above.
As i5bet72o said if it's a LP/blinds scenario I'd also shoving all day.

As played I like the check on the flop a lot, at first I tought we should bet for protection, but now I think he'd bet almost all draws himself. So check for induce is ok imo.

On the turn however, I'd shove vs his bet.
We will have to call blank rivers anyway (so we're AI vs better hands) and if he folds something like Tx now we're ok with that, given how big the pot is.
Most of the time he will feel committed and call the shove anyway.

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Originally posted by supeyrio
of course we cannot balance our 4bet flatting range. but if we can get away by playing exploitably, there's no need to balance right? and if our exploitative strategies get picked up, we can then adjust? what more this scenario happens on so few occassions, they cant even construct a range especially since regulars in my limits can still flat fold in such spots and turn up with some interesting hands like AK, QQ and pps.

i flat also because its a spot where he's extremely polarised, and i wanna keep all his bluffs in his range. like how you can't balance a 4bet flat, you cant balance a 5bet in this spot right? i only lose value from AK, and KK(on A high board) and he's always stacking off his value range, and i doubt he's 4betting JJ/QQ for value ? so no reason i'm giving him credit for a set of Q or J. his value range that beats me is probably KK only?

Agree with this. I also came to the conclusion that flatting 4bets can be ok against some opponents or some spots like the one above.
As i5bet72o said if it's a LP/blinds scenario I'd also shoving all day.

As played I like the check on the flop a lot, at first I tought we should bet for protection, but now I think he'd bet almost all draws himself. So check for induce is ok imo.

On the turn however, I'd shove vs his bet.
We will have to call blank rivers anyway (so we're AI vs better hands) and if he folds something like Tx now we're ok with that, given how big the pot is.
Most of the time he will feel committed and call the shove anyway.

No u read my post wrong. In LP vs blind spots i like flatting 4b b/c they have a huge bluff range but here i like shipping b/c they have more value hands.

supeyrio, I'd be interested in seeing the results of this hand, I think villian has to be quite spewy to have a worse hand on the river. When a reg flats given the positions, I think he crushes that board. I'm going to guess a regs flatting range is JJ-AA, AK, I'd expect to see KK a lot on the river or maybe KQ or something he was using with blockers to 4b bluff.

Originally posted by i5bet72o

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Originally posted by supeyrio
of course we cannot balance our 4bet flatting range. but if we can get away by playing exploitably, there's no need to balance right? and if our exploitative strategies get picked up, we can then adjust? what more this scenario happens on so few occassions, they cant even construct a range especially since regulars in my limits can still flat fold in such spots and turn up with some interesting hands like AK, QQ and pps.

i flat also because its a spot where he's extremely polarised, and i wanna keep all his bluffs in his range. like how you can't balance a 4bet flat, you cant balance a 5bet in this spot right? i only lose value from AK, and KK(on A high board) and he's always stacking off his value range, and i doubt he's 4betting JJ/QQ for value ? so no reason i'm giving him credit for a set of Q or J. his value range that beats me is probably KK only?

Agree with this. I also came to the conclusion that flatting 4bets can be ok against some opponents or some spots like the one above.
As i5bet72o said if it's a LP/blinds scenario I'd also shoving all day.

As played I like the check on the flop a lot, at first I tought we should bet for protection, but now I think he'd bet almost all draws himself. So check for induce is ok imo.

On the turn however, I'd shove vs his bet.
We will have to call blank rivers anyway (so we're AI vs better hands) and if he folds something like Tx now we're ok with that, given how big the pot is.
Most of the time he will feel committed and call the shove anyway.

No u read my post wrong. In LP vs blind spots i like flatting 4b b/c they have a huge bluff range but here i like shipping b/c they have more value hands.

Oooh, omg this was not my best day :rolleyes:.

Still, at this point I'm mostly 4betting valuehands like AA even IP because in my experience a lot of people are just calling those IP so once you 4bet people give you less credit for actually having a hand.

well villain had 66. seen him 4bet from utg and then folded post flop.