Bluff Raising the flop vs unknown. BVB

Hey Dats,

On this flop you won't have that many natural bluffs (maybe JT only, I think turning KJ, KT into a bluff here is massive spew - also, you 3bet them preflop), so it's good to add some 'unorthodox' hands into your bluffing range. However...

I really cannot see the merits of raising 87o here. It's around on of the first hands I'd fold, has 1 lousy backdoor 2-gapper, and that's it. I'd much rather raise 3flushes, and better 3straights here with better potential to realize their equity, and just better equity overall.

If you're raising this hand, you're massively overbluffing here, and if you ask me, against an unknown it's spew. (Of course you could go on the general assumption that they fold too much on this board, but still, exploiting a total unknown by ~100% of our range is still spew in my mind.)

Also, river is kind of questionable, I think he's probably not folding enough for us to barrel, but checking back 87 high is just a bit silly, so once again, don't raise flop.

Hope it helped,

Madi

I don't like raising against good opponents. Against fishplayers i like it and actually i would not bet this turncard. Too many times he's got something now. You cannot represent a lot as you like to call with hands you don't have to protect with. I'd rather do this play with a small Ax to induce more action but i don't have many hands i'd raise on the flop. Good players will certainly 3bet a lot and hands you wanna be building foldequity against fold the turn anysays. so i'd prefer floating over raising and betting the turn. You can represent more madehands and it's more credible.

In my experience, a float on the flop and a raise on the turn is quite a bit more efficient against good players (which of course is the same as firsttsunamis point). of course, it's quite a bit more expensive too.

/Johan =

I like lines:
-3bet on preflop to generate fold equity
-fold flop - I like most of all against unknown player
-third variant - raise flop check/fold turn.

His range almost always hit (pair or gutshot or has SH-value). Maybe bluf on flop is +EV, but not on turn IMO.

If we want bluf like raise bet - it line has very hight price and opp dnt fold so much.
So I consider that bluf line raise, checj/fold is better.

I don't line call flop, blufbet tun because he can check turn as attemption to see SD without raises.

And another reason he often hits. We must understand, when calling flop, that on turn opp often hits pair or draw, or he already has SD value - and we often can't continue bluf on turn. We often can't hit so strong hand to vbet turn and river.

Yeah thanks for all the feedback guys. My thinking was basically that this board was good to attack, but actually when i bluff here then it follows logically that i'll have far to many combinations of bluffs to be appropriate against an unknown.

Betting or checking the turn seems close. When he just calls I felt like he wasn't likely to have that strong of a hand. He could have 2nd pair or TPWK... or pocket pairs. I felt like these pairs would fold the turn now that a 3rd overcard has hit. However, in hindsight I don't think that it'll be a large enough part of his range given that I'll have 4:1 odds on my bluff.