VPIP / PFR replaced with RFI

i am using RFI stats from all position in my HUD. however i will still keep my VPIP/PFR stats to determine player type. to find out villain is recreational type you need bigger sample in RFI stats. in VPIP/PFR measuring you can tell almost instantly

call 2bet stats are in my popup, but to be honest i dont use them often, since on my limit there are not so much players using exact ranges. so it is not so usefull. and also you need very big sample for that.

I think it is better to keep VPIP/PFR as HUD stats and use RFI/call 2b in popup as positional stats.

EDIT:
PumaPerez was faster. :-)

Can't we use RFI/Call2bet (overall) as substitute?

20/5 = TAG
30/7 = LAG
5/30 = Fish / Calling Station

I want to remove VPIP/PFR from HUD. It only viable with pop up. Do anyone see disadvantage of RFI/C2b as substitute? As far as I think, the only disadvante is we have to adapt/habituate with this new stats.

EDIT: first line, I meant "RFI/Call2bet (average)...

I dont like pop up because we have to moving mouse to see the stats

Originally posted by ChoChikun
I think it is better to keep VPIP/PFR as HUD stats and use RFI/call 2b in popup as positional stats.

EDIT:
PumaPerez was faster. :-)

Yeah cuz you always check that RFI pop-up when mass tabling.

Originally posted by MatejM47

Originally posted by ChoChikun
I think it is better to keep VPIP/PFR as HUD stats and use RFI/call 2b in popup as positional stats.

EDIT:
PumaPerez was faster.

Yeah cuz you always check that RFI pop-up when mass tabling.

hehe
So what do you think Matej? Can you see disadvantage of RFI/Call2bet to substitute VPIP/PFR

Interesting question.
VPIP/PFR combine all positions, so perhaps they still have value as a barometer of a player's style.

If you have room in your HUD, then RFI by position seems to convey a lot of information at once. Besides the raw stats, you can see how positionally aware a player is.

If you're mass multi-tabling, how often do you ever look at pop-ups?
You might in marginal spots, but if you've that many tables open, is it worth the time to be checking pop-ups?

Cheers,
--VS

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Interesting question.
VPIP/PFR combine all positions, so perhaps they still have value as a barometer of a player's style.

we can combine for all pos also, by using average RFI/C2b. We can see player style also, see my previous post

If you have room in your HUD, then RFI by position seems to convey a lot of information at once. Besides the raw stats, you can see how positionally aware a player is.

No I dont want to add more stats. Too much stats is not good

If you're mass multi-tabling, how often do you ever look at pop-ups?
You might in marginal spots, but if you've that many tables open, is it worth the time to be checking pop-ups?

I rarely see pop ups for preflop decision, only vs though regular that I have good sample I see his 4bet call or sothing like that.

Cheers,
--VS

BTW, I see some disadvantage to using RFI/C2bet i.e on table with limper. Both RFI and C2b do not accomodate raise after limper and over limp.

well you can always have a preflop hud like this. just refer to pop-ups for postflop action.

name / hands / Fld to STL
VPIP/PFR/EPRFI / MPRFI/ LPRFI
ISO LIMP / FLAT 2B / 3b IP / 3boop / Fold to 3B

thats 3 lines with 5 stats for 2nd and 3rd line so thats not such a big preflop hud espeically for SH games

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i just made one just now for SH, with pt4 default pop-ups. its too big for FR.
stats with no abrv are as follows :

top line
call steal / VP / PFR / raise with previous limpers / call F 2bet

bottom line
Cbet flop / fold to f cbet / check raise flop / fold to check raise flop

To add onto this:

If you have room in your HUD, then RFI by position seems to convey a lot of information at once. Besides the raw stats, you can see how positionally aware a player is.

Personally I think you should always be able to make room for the RFI stats, as they're just incredibly useful. Not only do they give you an idea of a player's approximate opening range, they also show you if a player is positionally aware or not.

Also, let's say you're playing for example a 11/9 guy. Of course this player is a super nit. But when you look at just VPIP/PFR (or total RFI and coldcall, whichever you use), you'll expect him to be just that: a nit.

But it's certainly possible that this guy will open up to 50% or whatever on the button, which you probably won't account for unless you use popups a ton. And I'd imagine most people don't really use the popups often enough. Also, you might expect a 20/18 player to be fairly decent. But if he opens 18% or so from all positions, clearly he's not positionally aware and clearly isn't one of the better players around.

Again, if you have to use popups, you are pretty likely to miss this information a lot of the time, as you're not going to use a popup every time somebody open raises. And if you do, then it costs you a lot of time and you might as well put them straight on your HUD.

RFI for every position is the nuts to have on your HUD imo.

edit: I also still like to keep VPIP/PFR on there, not sure about switching them with total RFI/cold call.

Originally posted by Phgrinder
well you can always have a preflop hud like this. just refer to pop-ups for postflop action.

name / hands / Fld to STL
VPIP/PFR/EPRFI / MPRFI/ LPRFI
ISO LIMP / FLAT 2B / 3b IP / 3boop / Fold to 3B

thats 3 lines with 5 stats for 2nd and 3rd line so thats not such a big preflop hud espeically for SH games

Nice stats....
I just have to add CBflop/fCBflop/CBturn/fCBturn.
BTW, how do you get position RFI? (see red color above)
I dont have it on my default PT4 stats

edit: I also still like to keep VPIP/PFR on there, not sure about switching them with total RFI/cold call.

Yeah, there is problem to switching traditional VPIP/PFR to RFI/c2b or RFI/cc i.e these stats do not count when someone raise limper(s).

Originally posted by patszerdonk

Originally posted by Phgrinder
well you can always have a preflop hud like this. just refer to pop-ups for postflop action.

name / hands / Fld to STL
VPIP/PFR/EPRFI / MPRFI/ LPRFI
ISO LIMP / FLAT 2B / 3b IP / 3boop / Fold to 3B

thats 3 lines with 5 stats for 2nd and 3rd line so thats not such a big preflop hud espeically for SH games

Nice stats....
I just have to add CBflop/fCBflop/CBturn/fCBturn.
BTW, how do you get position RFI? (see red color above)
I dont have it on my default PT4 stats

just use RFI, and on the right side box look for positional drop down button. and choose EP MP CU BTN respectively

Originally posted by patszerdonk

edit: I also still like to keep VPIP/PFR on there, not sure about switching them with total RFI/cold call.

Yeah, there is problem to switching traditional VPIP/PFR to RFI/c2b or RFI/cc i.e these stats do not count when someone raise limper(s).

u really dun have to worry about that, since you have the ISO ( raise over limpers PT4 stat ).

u can just see imediately if the guy likes to iso raise wide or what not. and just stick to RFI for positional ranges

^^^ thanks very much. I think my problem solved :f_biggrin:

Thanks for all these tips - I've provisionally added RFI (though I prefer to call it OR for 'open-raise') by position (and 'cold-call 2bet pre-flop', which seems as if it could be useful) to my HUD, just because it's somewhat irritating having to open the pop-up constantly. I can't see myself removing VPIP or PFR, perhaps for sentimental and historical reasons (!), but mainly because they give such a tried-and-true method for instantly categorising each opponent.

Loving PT4, by the way - I upgraded after being prompted by the ad here on PokerStrategy, and it runs like a dream compared with PT3. The NoteTracker is pretty impressive also.

Was rather amusing moving down to NL2 for a single-tabling session for testing purposes as I adjusted my HUD - those players are indeed pretty bad; I really felt like giving them advice, and had to resist the urge to type in 'Don't let me steal your blinds so often - call or raise me!'. At least for once I managed to make a profit at NL2...

If he call you or raise he will lose more. ♦

I came to the same conclusion and dont have VPIP or PFR in my HUD