All-in Cash Out – Poker cash game feature

Sick hand. Even with the cash out of the bTN. This seems like a typical hand that you deal with players that don't know how to play PLO.

Cheers,
SDK1987

i'd like an automatic option to only cash out when villains do. that'd be nice for peace of mind - nobody likes to play against the house.

So what happens to the rest of the pot?
It seems to me that if someone cashes out, their cashout amount gets removed from the pot and their hand is folded.
Thus, the winner of the remaining players should get the remainder of the pot.

no, you just play against the house. for the other players, the hand continues like if nobody had cashed out, so pokerstars either makes some extra profit or some extra loss for that individual hand.

Not sure I like that feature, but could kill some variance by all-inns.

The saddest story is that in my country the All-in cash out option is not implemented yet! So I can do nothing to protect myself against the guys that are able to use it!

That's indeed nasty. Maybe it could have to do with regurlation rules as well.
That could depend per country.

I just started to play again after a 1 year break. Saw this feature pop up and immediately disabled it for myself.

Sure, it can reduce variance and allow shots with a smaller bankroll.
But if you use proper BRM and put in some volume, you'll just end up paying more 'rake'

That's indeed a good idea. Especially on NL2 you can easy win money even with some variance.

The best way to reduce variance is to not play.
You win nothing
You lose nothing
It never varies.

Part of the point of post-flop play is the goal of getting it all in by the river with the best hand.
If we defeat that by cashing out, we are sacrificing one of the best weapons we have for making money.

Think of it as "folding with benefits"
Yeah, but it is still folding.

That's indeed best or play only with money you won in free rolls and not your own money.

TBH I am sceptic about this feature, but I started with very small BR - approx $10 on NL2. Back then I was using the feature. Now with approx 30 BI's I only have it not blocked because I know that loosing a huge pot would tilt me... and by huge I mean when I am 250bb+ effective stack and we are all-in.
On those very rare ocasions I like to use the feature. Does not happen that often and keeps my mind sane

If and when I'll put up way more volume I will disable the feature completely.

Originally posted by Tomaloc
i'd like an automatic option to only cash out when villains do. that'd be nice for peace of mind - nobody likes to play against the house.

Couldnt have said it better

Cashout is just like an insurance. You pay to reduce variance. The question you should ask is how much you are willing to pay for it? Run it twice doesn't cost anything extra, but it costs time. So even with RIT, you give up minor portion of your EV to reduce variance.

Every PLO player has encountered those brutal runs of running dozens of buyins under EV for short period of time. And I would say that anyone who says "just get a proper BRM and don't worry downswings" is lying to themselves and to others, if the claim that major downswing doesn't affect their game. Hell, even Phil Galfond fell from his A game after a downswing.

I was talking about cashout with a friend who said that it's stupid to use it. Then he played, lost few buyins and got a little upset. And then he played few non-optimal hands and closed his session.

The cost of PokerStars cashout in general is 1bb/100. So your winrate drops that, if you constantly use cashout. If we compare that amount to mental game issues, assuming you are a crusher and have EV winrate of 10bb/100 with your A game:

Let's say that after being sucked out few times in big pots you get a little upset and play few hands too aggressively in 1000 hand session. If in those hands you make combined mistakes worth of over 10bb's, it would have been cheaper to use cashout to prevent getting upset.

Most players don't understand how delicate this game of poker is. It might not be enough that you play 99% of times your best poker, if that 1% kills your winnings. All it takes is one minor tilt and a bit loose shove, 3bet or raise. And that hand blows the winnings of 99% of your session.

Now PokerStars offers you a tool to possible prevent that from happening, the questions is: how much are you willing to pay for it?

We pay for trackers, books, videos, courses, tools, softwares etc. and see them as an investments. We invest money to increase our winrate. And no one questions that. Because they are concrete and/or physical things. When we enter the world of mental game, everyone thinks they are immune to it's effects. "I don't need cashout, it's only for weak and scared players!". What I have seen, EVERYONE has mental game issues. And most of use the issues are so big that it would be plain stupid to ignore them.

Summa summarum: cashout is -EV. Mental game flaws are -EV. In your scale, which one is more?

Originally posted by zetozinho

Originally posted by Tomaloc
i'd like an automatic option to only cash out when villains do. that'd be nice for peace of mind - nobody likes to play against the house.

Couldnt have said it better

Couldn't have said it worse. You don't play against the house, you get your equity share from the pot and pay house a small fee. The amount you get would be the exact same, whether the opponent used cashout or not. And still your fee is exactly the same.

Originally posted by Avala7che
A few thoughts and passions from today - we've been four people All-in pre-flop, one cashes his hand out for $ 2.23, the flop comes with a set of aces and an 80% chance for me.... but the winner was the cash out guy! : wtf:
Congratulations to Stars - $ 5.56 net profit plus rake ... Coincidence? Hopefully But unlikely!

As you see, BTN didn't win the whole pot. He won his equity share at the point when cashout was made. Here it was made preflop, and he had around 29,4% equity. So he cashed out 29,4% (minus the fee) from the pot. In the end, he had the best hand but he had used cashout which means he can't win more. If he hadn't used the cashout, he would have won the whole pot. No one else used the cashout, so you played the hand normally and could only get money by making the best hand in the end.

In this hand, Pokerstars kept the leftover amount. They didn't steal it. If hero had won the hand, then Pokerstars would have given BTN that 2,23 on top of Hero's winnings. In that case Pokerstars would have given out more than what there was in the pot in the first place. In the long run it will even out, and Pokerstars only takes the fee from the players.

Part of the point of post-flop play is the goal of getting it all in by the river with the best hand.
If we defeat that by cashing out, we are sacrificing one of the best weapons we have for making money.

How in the earth you defeat it with cashout? You can only use it when you are allin, so the idea of getting it in with the best hand is pretty valid still. You don't have to use it. If your opponent does, it doesn't affect your winnings at all. Could you please explain a bit more, how cashout defeats the goal of trying to make the best hand?

I have not checked into this closely, but if I cash out, and villain loses the hand, doesn't PokerStars get the pot?
Or is the cashed-out hand folded?

If villain doesn't use the cashout, then he plays it just like it would normally go. If he makes the best hand, he wins the pot. If he doesn't, he loses his chips.

PokerStars only gets the fee in the long run. In individual hands, sometimes players get less in winnings that was in the pot. And sometimes players get more that was in the pot. In the long run it evens out. I mean, if you cash out and opponent wins the hand, he wins the whole pot. But PokerStars pays you your equity share as you cashed out.