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[Closed] Playing Monsterdraws in Tournaments

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chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007

So a couple of hypothetical situations. All of them deal with 1-table SnG (9-10 players) where top 3 are paid:

blinds 10/20, stacks all 1500, 10-handed

Hero dealt A :diamond:K :diamond: UTG

Hero raises 70, all fold to BB who reraises to 210, Hero calls

Flop comes 10 :diamond:J :diamond:4 :heart:

Hero ??

Couple of choices here:

1. Hero goes all-in.
2. Standard bet/raise/raise.
3. Bet/fold.

Playing these sorts of draws more and more I'm really opting for the first one. My reasoning is against anything other than AA, KK, JJ, TT(unlikely), 2pair(unlikely) and 44(unlikely) we have 18 outs (2 overcards, 3 for straight, 8 for flush, which is 9-the one straight cards), which makes us a favourite against simple the TPTK. Against the 5 pocket-pairs and 2pair hands we're still in decent shape. This is IF we're allowed to see TWO cards.

However, if we bet and villain simply calls, the turn may come a blank and we will be forced to bet again, or call a bet. Our equity at this point is a lot worse, and we will be putting our money in while we are behind.

Thoughts? I'm more and more tempted to make move 1 for maximum fold equity and also the opportunity to see both turn and river. I've seen Mike Matusow, Sam Farha, (and David Benyamine, although his play was plain poor) make this sort of move quite often, and I wonder what you guys think about this.

And what about in these scenarios? (each number applies to a separate situation)

1. Villain simply called pre-flop. Thus making a shove here a clear overbet.
2. Hero was in position.
3. 3-way pot instead of 2.
4. Against a call station.
5. Against a maniac.
6. Against Phil Hellmuth.


6 replies

i'd prefer betting normal. There are 3 possibilities vor the villain:

call: bad, but not very bad.
raise: nice, you reraise.
fold: nice, you pick up the pot.

I think overbetting will only be called by sets, and doesn't change your euquity, however, it does change the amount of money you'll get in the pot on the flop. I don't really like an all in here.


chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007

in low limit tournaments with generally tight/weak or loose/weak players a call is a lot more likely in comparison to a re-pop. now you say a call is not very bad but in reality, at least in my opinion, it's very bad. your chances of improving (say in this case against QQ) is a mere 29% by the turn, or 32% against J3o, at which case you are quite far behind.

here's another example from today, would you play this any differently to the first hand?

HOLE CARDS
Dealt to Hero [9d 6d]
Jon93405: folds
cardslingr80: calls 20
Bentoczz: folds
Mrritz36: folds
MONOBLOK: folds
twitt29: folds
roofdog519: folds
starnet1964: calls 10
Hero: checks
FLOP [Qh 7d 8d]
starnet1964: bets 60
Hero: raises 150 to 210
cardslingr80: calls 210
starnet1964: folds
TURN [Qh 7d 8d] [Ac]
Hero: checks
cardslingr80: bets 200
hero??


villain is showing strength in the second example, so i would overbet there. Make it 300-350 or sumtin.


Unam
Joined: 17.08.2006

Hand 1 C/R all in, when you think he only plays AA and KK you have to fold pre, if you don't think that you may C/R him on this flop.
Hand 2 call on the flop, only raise here on the lowlimits, when you are able to go all in.


chenny8888
Joined: 03.10.2007

1st hand: sounds awesome... forgot about a c/r. i imagine normal bet/raise/raise if you're in position. or overbet/raise?

2nd hand: why just call? you're ahead against so many cards.. you have just as many outs against almost every hand.

63% against A8o
56% against AQo
52% against 78o
52% against KK+, TT-JJ

45% against higher diamonds
41% against range QQ, 77, 88


Unam
Joined: 17.08.2006

1 Hand C/R AI is the best way to play this, because you are ahead of a lot of his hands, but you will get a reraise only by the best of them, added to this you are only ahead of his hands on the flop, if the turn is a blank you may be forced to fold.

2 Hand maybe you miss understood me, my line here is to ceep the pot small until I hit, or to shove it all in, when the pot is big enough to take it. Second line is clear to you I think, first line is special for the low limits, because you don't have much fold equity.
So you will not be able to take the pot here right away, which is sad, but the other side of this Problem is, you will be able to make the pot big, when you hit.
With this line I loose a small pot, but win a big one.
Of course, when I can go all in on the flop I take this chance, because as you wrote, we are ahead vs many hands, but we have to see both, the turn and the river.