do we call here?

seems a pretty easy fold imo cant imagine you beating bb's range especially if he's tight

100% agree with Bonet

consider that the loser is going to be eliminated or basically out you can fold and have the CL headsup. Save your chips your equity isn't good enough despite the good odds. Consider that you have to beat two opponents and not one.

Originally posted by AaronLambert
100% agree with Doubleup12

consider that the loser is going to be eliminated or basically out you can fold and have the CL headsup. Save your chips your equity isn't good enough despite the good odds. Consider that you have to beat two opponents and not one.

FYP

about hand

they were weak tight meaning => they fold way too much

with that said mu thought proces was if i call and i won hand it will be over and i will won if i fold is true that i'll have chip leader but imo that doesnt mater much cos we r any way in push fold mode +-

i think i have edge vs whoever stays HU and basicly biger efectiv stacks are = biger mine edge is

also i think i have at least 25% eq vs both of their ranges and we r getting like ~2,6:1 on main pot, and there will be side pot of 20k vs BB => so if we win vs bb and lose vs SB(for ex. he has 22-88< K9) it will be like =>we call ~36k more to win main pot of 136k ~ 3:1 odds + i'm only risking 1/3 of mine stack to won the whole thing

+ if i lose this hand to both of them i can abuse big stack considering they were weak tight + ICM cos there will be still short stack left

so imo i dont think this is easy fold at all tbh, considering icm and all said above

so can any one like do the numbers what should be range that we should call here
if we give like something like*
22+, A2s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, A2o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo => SB
22+, A9s+, KQs, A9o+ => BB

*maybe my ranges r way off here? thoughts?

haha my bad bonebt

so use to getting in after your responses so far that I failed to realize it was your hand and not your comment.

ya I think your ranges are quite a bit to loose.

The main reason why is because with your chip lead it is as if they are playing for 2nd place at this point which is a good thing.

if both players are weak tight fish then ranges should be something like
SB
22+ A5s+ A8o+ KTs+ KJo+ QJ
BB
66+ AT+ KQ

K9 just doesn't play well here

PokerStars - $2.28+$0.22|3000/6000 NL (9 max) - Holdem - 3 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: 66,132.00
Hero (BTN): 147,184.00
SB: 56,684.00

BB posts ante 600.00, Hero posts ante 600.00, SB posts ante 600.00, SB posts SB 3,000.00, BB posts BB 6,000.00

Pre Flop: (10800.00) Hero has 9♠ K♥

Hero raises to 12,000.00, SB raises to 56,084.00 and is all-in, BB raises to 65,532.00 and is all-in, Hero calls 53,532.00

Flop: (188948.00, 3 players) 3♦ Q♦ J♣

Turn: (188948.00, 3 players) T♦

River: (188948.00, 3 players) 2♦

BB shows A♦ 9♥ (Flush, Ace High) (Pre 59%, Flop 16%, Turn 21%)
Hero shows 9♠ K♥ (Straight, King High) (Pre 8%, Flop 16%, Turn 74%)
SB shows J♦ K♣ (Flush, Queen High) (Pre 33%, Flop 69%, Turn 5%)
BB wins 188,948.00

what do u think now about their ranges?
i think i had a pretty much good read about their ranges and make a call cos i knew that even if i loose i have huge edge HU and i can win the whole thing any way if i dont run into coller/top of villains range first 3-4 hands in HU

i thought for a while and make the call and mine reasoning was that this was maybe just a litle -chEVcall but worth gamble spot with mine reads/edge and stuff and considering icm and $$ jumps i thought that this should be a call (with reads/edge obv) => but i dont know how i can solve this problem math wise to see is this ok call or big - EV/$$ spot

help

I still stick with my ranges. The SB was in my range and the BB was JUST outside of the range (had AT+ and he had A9).

The thing is you won't have a chip lead of the bigger stack wins here. I still think you'd probably have an edge against a weak tight player but I just don't think it is worth the gamble here. K9o against both of these players ranges doesn't have enough equity. It is going to be a slightly -EV shove and just isn't worth the gamble being a negative ev situation.

Originally posted by AaronLambert
I still stick with my ranges. The SB was in my range and the BB was JUST outside of the range (had AT+ and he had A9).

The thing is you won't have a chip lead of the bigger stack wins here. I still think you'd probably have an edge against a weak tight player but I just don't think it is worth the gamble here. K9o against both of these players ranges doesn't have enough equity. It is going to be a slightly -EV shove and just isn't worth the gamble being a negative ev situation.

i see

so what range do we call here?

also what do u think is open raise better given the fact they fold too much or shoving pre as standard is best here?

lookin at the stacks here raise folding seems weak but when BOTH put it in it is fine. I do think some of your range should be an open shove and K9o might work fine here as a shove preflop.

Think of it this way. You shove and does KJo feel good about calling? They have no fold equity and are forced to a showdown. If the SB calls the BB always folds here. You have more equity now because you are up against just one opponent.

When I determine my range here I will try to play the top and the bottom of my range by min-raising like you did and the the middle I would just shove.

I would min raise call off
AT+
77+
I would shove
66-22
A9-A2
K8o+
K2s+
Q9o+
Q8s+
67s+
I would min raise fold
the next 10-15% of hands
and open fold the rest of my range

You benefit from two weak tight players so your raising range should be wide. You could always just open ship like 65% of hands and show a profit here but I think doing this could eliminate some of your edge