3,5$ turbo TT

Hi all,

Good bet/fold on the turn. I like betting here because a lot of his flop calling range has a pair + sd on the turn, is never folding, and are behind against us. Villain can easily have good Qx, 98, JT type hands.

What about check backl a turn isn't that better ? We can easily control the pot and let him strike with worse hands if he checks back we always have value on river versus worse hands.

Originally posted by Manova
What about check/call a turn isn't that better ? We can easily control the pot and let him strike with worse hands if he checks back we always have value on river versus worse hands.

If you are checking this flop you are missing way too much value vs worse hands on the flop IMO. I like the line taken by OP best.

I mean playing a check on a turn not on a flop , only one calling on a turn hand will fold on a river I mean flush draw. If he doesn't bet we just make delayed value bet which he is always calling with 8 , 9 , even with 4. I don't think this guy would call 3 streets with for example an 8 unless A kickec :), by playing check on a turn like I said we can easily control a pot if he has better hand ( If he strikes on a river and we call we lose as many chips as we betted on a turn and got reraised ) and get a value on 2 streets from worse made hand like we does betting a turn.

I bet the turn because I want value from some FD and I think check back is rather a weak play when people on this stakes loves suited hands and don't watch a the pot odds. They are calling to the river almost always with FD and play fit or fold on the river. Villian looks more stronger than an avarage player on this stakes , and this line looks really strong. Of course he could have some bluffs here , but I think now the majority of his range it was valuebet on the turn, and I have only 3 clear outs which I am happy on river.

but even if he have a flush draw and misses it , he often bluff a river ;P.

not necessarily, the main hand i want value from is 9x and 8x type hands, which will not pay us off if a third diamond comes on the river (and indeed we don't want to bet lots of river cards ourselves.

Originally posted by chenny8888
(and indeed we don't want to bet lots of river cards ourselves.

Like what ?? I don't think he is folding a 9 or 8 after we check a turn and 3rd diamond appears he may does it but not rly often IMO. If we get a scary card for us like K A T ? Diamond ? we can just call his bet if he checks we are almost everytime ahead ready to value bet ;>.

that may well be the case, but assuming he folds his 9x or 8x some of the times, then what happens is we bet and he may have Qx or some better hands, fold his worse hands and suddenly we valuetown ourselves. basically there are some boards and some opponents and some hands to go for pot control with, but this is certainly not one of those spots.

Sorry for writing again but if he has like Q again he doesn't fold a turn so if we check the turn and bet a river and he just calls we lose same amount like betting on a turn so I don't see where we valuetown ourselves :P. I know you are better player than me it's why I'm diggin so badly cuz I wanna understand it how you think about it and why you think about pot control so bad in that spot :).

Manova - The reason is that there are still a ton of draw combos that we beat, and most players dont call/call/bluff lead their missed draws (and if they do that regularly, that's pretty fun to exploit). So this is a spot where even though we are possibly beat by a queen, we beat way more of his range that we want value from. We also give the opponent the opportunity to make a mistake by calling without proper odds with a draw - when they may not put any more chips in on the river when they've missed.

Also, with the flop being so drawy, the majority of opponents will choose to checkraise their Qs on the flop, so the possibility of villain holding a Q is also reduced.