NL200 KQs

Hello axelphoney,

What's the purpose of the shove on the turn? Do you think he is folding made hands? Does your line make sense? Would you ever shove sets here, at least I don't see myself doing that?

Best Regards.

To fold out his light 2nd barrels. It doesn"t make too much sense I am with you on that, but what is he suppose to do if he has a hand like AQ, or any other hand that he barrels with that does not have a pair or any decent SD-value?

Maybe it's a too strong of assumption to think that villain would 2nd barrel loosely in this spot, but I just think you see regs do that a lot these days, esp if he is on the more aggressive side and/or views me as aggressive too.

And if he calls my shove with all Jx and better I will still be in pretty decent shape equitywise.
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And I also think that you actually see some regs raise their sets and other strong hands in this spot, even if it might not be the best play I still think its not super uncommon to see regs take that line for value

Any thoughts on that?

To fold out his light 2nd barrels. It doesn"t make too much sense I am with you on that, but what is he suppose to do if he has a hand like AQ, or any other hand that he barrels with that does not have a pair or any decent SD-value?

I'd be not folding here but rather calling and reevaluating the river, we could easily even have overcards as working outs.

Maybe it's a too strong of assumption to think that villain would 2nd barrel loosely in this spot, but I just think you see regs do that a lot these days, esp if he is on the more aggressive side and/or views me as aggressive too.

I would assume that villain is very often 2nd barreling most of his CBetting range on the flop as even Ace high holdings. If not then he rather has a leak in his game.

And if he calls my shove with all Jx and better I will still be in pretty decent shape equitywise.

That's true that we have decent equity but why not use it as implied odds and save our money and ship da money on the river once we hit. He isn't that likely putting us on a BDFD.

And I also think that you actually see some regs raise their sets and other strong hands in this spot, even if it might not be the best play I still think its not super uncommon to see regs take that line for value

Nah, rarely saw them doing that, wouldn't even make sense to raise a set here.

just call and bluff the river

Ok so the conclusion is then calling > shoving due to the stacksizes, because I assume that with 100bb this would be a no-brainer show shove ott?

The fact remains that we do not rep that much, but villain will most likely have a decent number of hands that can't stand a shove so it would be pretty silly to call and maybe even let him bluff again when there is nothing we can do about it and just fold?

I am still wondering though, at what stack depth would you draw the line between calling and shoving ott?

Originally posted by axelphoney
Ok so the conclusion is then calling > shoving due to the stacksizes, because I assume that with 100bb this would be a no-brainer show shove ott?

The fact remains that we do not rep that much, but villain will most likely have a decent number of hands that can't stand a shove so it would be pretty silly to call and maybe even let him bluff again when there is nothing we can do about it and just fold?

I am still wondering though, at what stack depth would you draw the line between calling and shoving ott?

I am not even shoving for 100bb deep here. Just keeping his wide range and maybe even bluffs in the play. With sets you would never shove and not that many ranges which you actually shove the turn unless it's some floated FD.

Why would you wanna keep bluffs in his range? If he does bluff ott and then fires again otr there is nothing we can do but to fold, when we could just have shoved ott to realize some FEQ, and I don't see any reason not if we just have the slightest FEQ which we will have against close to all regs.

And if he does call with something and sees that we took this rather weird line, we just make sure to do it for value the next time.

Originally posted by axelphoney
Why would you wanna keep bluffs in his range? If he does bluff ott and then fires again otr there is nothing we can do but to fold, when we could just have shoved ott to realize some FEQ, and I don't see any reason not if we just have the slightest FEQ which we will have against close to all regs.

And if he does call with something and sees that we took this rather weird line, we just make sure to do it for value the next time.

That's why overall aggression and river barreling tendency would be useful here. Also of course our image what might be the most important thing to decide on that action. If we have been aggressive and had some history with that guy &or he sees also us this way then he is more likely to 3barrel as a bluff. Which means ship the turn for FE vs air type of holdings cause anything else calls you most likely down here with showdown value.

Also I expect him very often to Check/Fold lower PPs on the river instead of turning them into bluff, unless once again we have some specific information on the guy. Just put yourself into villains shoes and you would see Hero shoving the turn, what kind of range do you see him doing that?